POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Questions about the graph:

1) Why does it combine the quintiles for 21-80?
2) What's the difference between 81st-99th percentiles and "lowest quintile"? The difference is the $0 earners, so what's the point of mentioning them?
3) Why did they omit 2-20?

I want to see it all, not selective listings. That sets my BS Detector to Danger levels.

Doesn't mine. You could have just the bottome 99% and the top 1% in that graph. The three lines at the bottom all look the same.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

This only impacts the super rich though. Which is good, right?

That's who would impact the most, with the most benefit.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Questions about the graph:

1) Why does it combine the quintiles for 21-80?
2) What's the difference between 81st-99th percentiles and "lowest quintile"? The difference is the $0 earners, so what's the point of mentioning them?
3) Why did they omit 2-20?

I want to see it all, not selective listings. That sets my BS Detector to Danger levels.

All valid criticisms.

A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

<img src="https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/derugy-avg-effective-tax-rates-chart3-1000.jpg" height="300"></img>

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Balance would be fine. Just stop pretending the 12%+ in payroll taxes doesn't exist. when this conversation comes up. I believe the Medicare tax is on all income, but is that taking out on Capital Gains? Doubt it.

Medicare tax portion is on all income. And then there is a surcharge on all income over $200,000, but the employer does not pay the surcharge, just the employer portion of the Medicare tax.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

All valid criticisms.

A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

<img src="https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/derugy-avg-effective-tax-rates-chart3-1000.jpg" height="300"></img>

That to me doesn't look very different than the other graph.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

I am all for this tax reform. Everyone knows 401Ks are just a Leftist Antifa plot to funnel money to George Soros

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

That to me doesn't look very different than the other graph.

It's the same findings (same CBO data) however the first graph was not simple apples to apples. St. Clown expressed concern that the data was being cherry-picked to build a narrative, and I think we should always be mindful of this. The second graph removes the concern using a much simpler breakdown with no overlaps, no gaps, but still preserves the telescoping of the data at the high end to demonstrate that the problem isn't the top quintile per se, it's attenuation as you go higher. If we in turn broke down the top 1% I'd expect to see the same pattern, and so on. The Fiscal Rip Off is fractal-like. The rich rip us off; the super-rich rip off everyone including the merely rich; the super-duper rich rip off everyone including the merely super-rich, and so on up to the top handful of in the US who are f-cking us all.

As opposed to the economic system of the US during its heydey in the 40s through 70s when inequality was actively eroded by reditrisbution and the middle class grown and EVERYONE flourished, since Reagan's cuts we have seen the economy as a reward system benefitting only the richest, with everyone else left behind.

Completely coincidentally, I'm sure, at the same time we've seen the rise of identity politics on the left and reactionary social conservatism on the right, getting us at each other's throats while the 1% (and .1%, and .01%) laugh all the way to the bank.

I don't want to abolish the plutocracy. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

All valid criticisms.

A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

<img src="https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/derugy-avg-effective-tax-rates-chart3-1000.jpg" height="300"></img>

So if I had the time, I'd look for data that broke down thusly, by quintile, growth rates for:

Pre-tax income.
after-tax income.
Overall inflation figures vs. inflation figures based upon goods most commonly purchased by each quintile.

ETA: I don't expect it would improve the picture for the bottom four quintiles.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

So if I had the time, I'd look for data that broke down thusly, by quintile, growth rates for:

Pre-tax income.
after-tax income.
Overall inflation figures vs. inflation figures based upon goods most commonly purchased by each quintile.

ETA: I don't expect it would improve the picture for the bottom four quintiles.

Yep, after-tax real income is the best possible face you can put on it for the rich, because it includes all the forms of social assistance from the government as "income" for the poor. If we reduced the scope to only salary and capital gains, the bottom 2 quintiles would crater.

In Real Life, of course, many of the poor don't get that assistance. The ones who are poor because of mental condition go into a homeless hell indistinguishable from the worst situation for humans in any time period in any place in world history. The ones who have been herded into ghettos and denied legitimate chances of succeeding by racism and middle class fear are sucked into the crime / incarceration machine that is essentially modern slavery.

The picture of how actual lives go is far, far colder and darker than those these neat bargraphs. We are a nation of plenty that sentences a full quarter or so of its citizens to lives of misery as complete as a rural vagabond in the 13th century, and they can't even live off the farmland anymore.

But hey, they don't post here, and they don't vote, so out of sight, out of mind.

 

[geezer]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

We are a nation of plenty that sentences a full quarter or so of its citizens to lives of misery as complete as a rural vagabond in the 13th century, and they can't even live off the farmland anymore.

This is what bothers me. We've got people literally starving, and trying to survive horrible untreated diseases of all kinds while living on the streets, and we're *itching and moaning because the 401(k) contribution might be touched by a marginal tax after socking away $5,000.00 ANNUALLY. A stupid selfish concern that might be limited to the top 0.1% of the world's wealthiest individuals. The thoughtless greed we exhibit is appalling. It would not take a whole lot of sacrifice to feed and shelter the people.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

All valid criticisms.

A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

<img src="https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/derugy-avg-effective-tax-rates-chart3-1000.jpg" height="300"></img>

that 99th %tile is getting away with murder!!!! they have had their income increase 24% more than mookie's in the 88th percentile their taxes should be raised!!!!

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Letting Fredo's wife run point does not appear to be the best strategy: https://thinkprogress.org/there-is-...ohnsons-widow-lara-trump-reveals-61faf4d76b95

Friday morning on Fox and Friends, Lara Trump, Trump’s daughter-in-law, revealed there is a way to settle this definitively. There is, according to Lara Trump, a transcript of the conversation. Lara Trump, who does not work in the White House (but does work for Trump’s campaign), has read them.

...

It’s also unclear why Lara Trump would have access to official White House transcripts of the call while the general public does not. Eric Trump, who frequently appears as a White House surrogate, is running the Trump Organization and is not supposed to be involved in his father’s political activities. It is unclear if he also read the transcript.

UPDATE (2:40 p.m.): White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders denied there is a transcript of the call. She referred further questions to Lara Trump and the Trump campaign.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Letting Fredo's wife run point does not appear to be the best strategy: https://thinkprogress.org/there-is-...ohnsons-widow-lara-trump-reveals-61faf4d76b95

"never marry a guiney!!"

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Also, how dare the congresswoman listen to a call that was on the speakerphone, but let's let everyone in the extended family read a transcript (if that part isn't a complete fabrication).

 

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Nope, there isn't a transcript.

*Edit* Twitter was a buzz this morning because apparently the Magamorons were confusing a video released by the wife of a soldier killed in Afghanistan as this widow's phone call.

 

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Also, I am continually floored by how much sh** people have to wade through created by Donald.

Also, I saw this circling around Twitter again:
https://twitter.com/evilsharkey/status/864548377660317696

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WaPo: The president shat himself.<br>White House: The president would never **** himself.<br>Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE<br><br>Every. ****ing. Day.</p>— Scott Sharkey (@evilsharkey) <a href="https://twitter.com/evilsharkey/status/864548377660317696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

*Edit* Twitter was a buzz this morning because apparently the Magamorons were confusing a video released by the wife of a soldier killed in Afghanistan as this widow's phone call.

Oh yeah, that's been going on for a few days. I mean, they could take all of 2 seconds to look at the name and realize it's a different guy; plus, that solider was killed in April IIRC.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Also, how dare the congresswoman listen to a call that was on the speakerphone, but let's let everyone in the extended family read a transcript (if that part isn't a complete fabrication).

Not to mention, Kelly listened in on it, and who knows how many others in the Oval Office.

But that's ok, cause he's a Marine, and you do not question a former Marine.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/23/16522456/trump-bartiromo-transcript

BARTIROMO: Do you think they're going to get Europeans to support you in terms of sanctions, in terms of not selling technology to Iran?

TRUMP: Honestly, I told them. They're friends of mine. They really are. I get along with all of them. Whether it's Emmanuel [Macron] or whether it’s Angela [Merkel], I get along — I really like those people.

I told them, just keep making money. Don’t worry about it. We don’t need you on this. You just keep making money. When Iran buys things from Germany and from France and from the various — by billions of dollars, even us, they were going to buy Boeings. I don’t know what's going to happen with the deal.

We'll see what happens with the deal, but — but when they buy those things, it's a little harder for those countries to do something. Would they do it if I really was insistent? I believe they would.

I told them just keep making money. Don’t worry. We don’t need you on this one.

?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/23/16522456/trump-bartiromo-transcript



?

*** does that mean?