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POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

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Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

trixR4kids said:
Like I said before if the dem leadership doesn't do enough to generate excitement and get people out to the polls then they deserve a lot of the blame. The millions of individuals all making the independent decision deserve some blame too I guess but the common denominator is at the top and they have more power to make this happen.
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On this I'd say Dems in general and Hillary in particular were too cautious, but its kinda tough to campaign on bold change when your party has been in office the past 8 years. Some would say Bernie could do that but Sanders struggled a lot during the primary in articulating his thoughts on the Obama Presidency. I suspect that was some of the cause of his trouble attracting non-whites to support him.

However, I think a Dem candidate needs to give Dem voters some tough love. I'd come right out and say it, in all forums, debates, and rallies. We will not win unless you're all 100% on board. If not, we'll lose and hand govt over to the Republicans. Dems spend too much time kissing voters butts. Its real simple. Either you vote or you lose. People need to hear that directly and repeatedly.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Rover said:
On this I'd say Dems in general and Hillary in particular were too cautious, but its kinda tough to campaign on bold change when your party has been in office the past 8 years. Some would say Bernie could do that but Sanders struggled a lot during the primary in articulating his thoughts on the Obama Presidency. I suspect that was some of the cause of his trouble attracting non-whites to support him.
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I was perplexed by the latter, but I will say I run into the following problem on Kos. Somebody will post a story on how blacks are being treated like crap. In passing in my response I mention that blacks are treated like crap because America treats poor people like crap and blacks are disproportionately poor.

Nuclear Armageddon follows with me being called everything from a racist to a concern troll for having the temerity to suggest that the biggest problem blacks face is not white racism but the ongoing class war conducted by the 1%. Note that I never said white racism isn't a big problem, just that it isn't the biggest problem. Hilarity does not ensue, and everything I say to clarify gets twisted into me obviously being a lurking Republican trying to sow discord.

I would expect that kind of thing on DU, which I why I never post on DU, but Kos -- although riven by cliques -- has some of the smartest people I've ever talked politics with. And of course they get what I'm saying. But the community as a whole is on such a hair trigger that any mention of race has to follow the Radcliffe company line or (emotional insult implying racial insensitivity here).

So I think when Bernie talked about the economic oppression of the poor, blacks and Latinos thought he was downplaying systemic racism, or at best just didn't connect with his message because they think he's missing the point. Whereas in reality he's talking about The Central Point that has been behind the decline of everyone except the rich ever since Saint Ronnie.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

This new Skype questions for the White House DPB is embarrassingly bad...
 
Kepler said:
I was perplexed by the latter, but I will say I run into the following problem on Kos. Somebody will post a story on how blacks are being treated like crap. In passing in my response I mention that blacks are treated like crap because America treats poor people like crap and blacks are disproportionately poor.

Nuclear Armageddon follows with me being called everything from a racist to a concern troll for having the temerity to suggest that the biggest problem blacks face is not white racism but the ongoing class war conducted by the 1%. Note that I never said white racism isn't a big problem, just that it isn't the biggest problem. Hilarity does not ensue, and everything I say to clarify gets twisted into me obviously being a lurking Republican trying to sow discord.

I would expect that kind of thing on DU, which I why I never post on DU, but Kos -- although riven by cliques -- has some of the smartest people I've ever talked politics with. And of course they get what I'm saying. But the community as a whole is on such a hair trigger that any mention of race has to follow the Radcliffe company line or (emotional insult implying racial insensitivity here).

So I think when Bernie talked about the economic oppression of the poor, blacks and Latinos thought he was downplaying systemic racism, or at best just didn't connect with his message because they think he's missing the point. Whereas in reality he's talking about The Central Point that has been behind the decline of everyone except the rich ever since Saint Ronnie.
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Do you think classism has replaced racism in certain parts of our country? It's obviously very subjective but I've read articles suggesting it's on the rise and from what I have observed would seem to make sense.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedish-deputy-pm-mocks-trump-female-photo-154037126.html

Stockholm (AFP) - Sweden's deputy prime minister, Isabella Lovin, on Friday published a photograph of herself signing a climate bill surrounded by her closest female colleagues, mocking a photo of US President Donald Trump.

In the photo, Lovin, who also serves as environment and development aid minister, is seated at a desk as she signs the bill under the watchful eye of seven female colleagues, including one who is visibly pregnant.

The shot parodies a photo taken of Donald Trump on January 23 in the White House, as he signs a decree barring US federal funding for foreign NGOs that support abortion, as his all-male colleagues look on.
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Sweden is one of the 20 other nations I would rather be living in right now.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Drew S. said:
Do you think classism has replaced racism in certain parts of our country? It's obviously very subjective but I've read articles suggesting it's on the rise and from what I have observed would seem to make sense.
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I wouldn't say replaced, but I would say classism has been rising as whites have become a class Oreo (conservatives on both ends, liberals in the middle). Republican Populism is a very strange beast, because it has turned the poor against the middle class instead of the upper class. Meanwhile, liberal classism against uneducated whites has the middle class turned against the poor instead of the upper class. Racism, insofar as it is fostered by the ruling class to divide those underneath them from allying against their common enemy, works the same way as classism in America is starting to work. The 1% has at least supplemented one tool with another. It hasn't replaced racism because they still need racism to ensure that poor whites and poor blacks hate each other. If poor blacks and poor whites every ally, you won't get a polite erudite Obama reaction against the plutes, you'll get Robespierre II, now with the NSA.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Kepler said:
I was perplexed by the latter, but I will say I run into the following problem on Kos. Somebody will post a story on how blacks are being treated like crap. In passing in my response I mention that blacks are treated like crap because America treats poor people like crap and blacks are disproportionately poor.

Nuclear Armageddon follows with me being called everything from a racist to a concern troll for having the temerity to suggest that the biggest problem blacks face is not white racism but the ongoing class war conducted by the 1%. Note that I never said white racism isn't a big problem, just that it isn't the biggest problem. Hilarity does not ensue, and everything I say to clarify gets twisted into me obviously being a lurking Republican trying to sow discord.

I would expect that kind of thing on DU, which I why I never post on DU, but Kos -- although riven by cliques -- has some of the smartest people I've ever talked politics with. And of course they get what I'm saying. But the community as a whole is on such a hair trigger that any mention of race has to follow the Radcliffe company line or (emotional insult implying racial insensitivity here).

So I think when Bernie talked about the economic oppression of the poor, blacks and Latinos thought he was downplaying systemic racism, or at best just didn't connect with his message because they think he's missing the point. Whereas in reality he's talking about The Central Point that has been behind the decline of everyone except the rich ever since Saint Ronnie.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Sounds like a familiar problem somewhere nearby.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

busterman62 said:
Hmmm. Sounds like a familiar problem somewhere nearby.
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Not sure what you mean. If it's the complaint of conservatives that they get called racists for backing policies that disproportionately hurt blacks not because they hate blacks but because they don't care about the poor, then I guess you have a point but I wouldn't really celebrate it. :confused:

In my experience conservatives' inability to see either casual racism or systemic racism in anything less than full-blown slavery is usually what gets them branded as racist. I would say that rather than racist they're just self-absorbed and incapable of empathy, if that makes you feel better.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Kepler said:
I really want to believe they're run by the same outfit, who's just getting rich off both side's eejits.
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Well, we all know JimRob makes his living off the quarterly Grift-a...er, I mean Freep-athon drives. I haven't seen an equivalent figurehead or donation drive at DU, but admittedly I spend far less time lurking there.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

ScoobyDoo said:
Dodd Frank. Gone. Looking out for the little man, right?

This should help the little guy too.



From Elizabeth Warren's Facebook.
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Dodd-Frank has been a pain in my arse since its passing, but it'll probably be just as expensive to unwind its effects from my company's processing efforts. Only to then re-institute it come 2021.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

St. Clown said:
Dodd-Frank has been a pain in my arse since its passing, but it'll probably be just as expensive to unwind its effects from my company's processing efforts. Only to then re-institute it come 2021.
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Well, they probably learned a lot about how the real targets were circumventing it. Not saying we'll be able to do it better the next time, since they'll just lobby the sh-t out of it again, but hope springs eternal.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Kepler said:
Well, they probably learned a lot about how the real targets were circumventing it. Not saying we'll be able to do it better the next time, since they'll just lobby the sh-t out of it again, but hope springs eternal.
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I don't think there would be any lobbying that could be effective. Trump signed it away with an EO, the next president will just sign it back in with an EO. Because that's becoming the norm of how things work now, apparently.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Interesting snippet circulating tonight on Twitter from Bush/Cheney's memoirs as written by Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent for the NY Times.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/charlesmurray">@charlesmurray</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CarlosLozadaWP">@CarlosLozadaWP</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt">@peterbakernyt</a> Some of my fav passages from Days of Fire involve Putin and are interesting for our moment. <a href="https://t.co/XDMEyRnQ8Y">pic.twitter.com/XDMEyRnQ8Y</a></p>— Thomas Cleveland (@TCleveland4Real) <a href="https://twitter.com/TCleveland4Real/status/808470846318723072">December 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Seems Putin, a guy surrounded by groups of loyal 'yes' men who have a preconceived bias they can't shake, has a misunderstanding of how the America works.

Is it just something about the era? Are people Putin and Trump's age really that paranoid? Was the dust from the A-Bomb tests enough to scramble the minds of people of that era? Were fluoride levels not perfected until after their generation?
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

dxmnkd316 said:
Even a right-leaning site like The Hill is rolling it's eyes at the Trump administration claiming the jobs growth report was due to their policies:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/317791-white-house-claims-credit-for-january-jobs-report
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Even if you give Trump credit for the 227,000, he's still has 31 months to go of job growth of at least that number to equal Obama, who had 32 months of job growth exceeding 227,000 included in his 76 consecutive months of positive job growth numbers.

And yet, Obama presided over a sucky economy. :confused:
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Warren will have a tough road just because you know the banksters are going to pump as much money as they can into the sort of ads that get out the lofo Republican vote. For all its reputation, MA has plenty of those folks.
 
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