POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I would agree that there's nobody who can replace Pelosi currently and that we have to live with her. And you're right she seems to be good at gaining a consensus from her party.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Actually it has a lot to do with why they lost the general 3x to inferior candidates since 2000. As for whiny dem voters maybe they should contemplate why they're whiny, change that, and then profit. Rather than writing books about how everyone else was at fault and how they learned nothing.

As for how to make it better and fairer there are a number of ways that can be accomplished.

Who was the better candidate in all those elections? How did the Dem Primaries prevent them from winning? Please be specific because if all you have is some emails about Debbie Wasserman-Shultz then you lose the argument right away. There wasnt a better candidate than Gore the year he ran and outside of Howard Dean (who would have been eviscerated) there wasnt much for Kerry to run against. Obama beat Hillary so it isnt like she was unbeatable in the Primaries the problem is the only competition she had in 2016 was Bernie and sorry but he just wasnt that good a candidate. And that is speaking as someone that was one of the first on this site to support him. Hillary wasnt going to lose to a guy who was preaching huge ideas (without ways to pay for it) who wasnt even a member of the Party.

It isnt the Dem Primaries that are the problem, it isnt the Superelegates and it isnt the power structure...it is the voters and the candidates. Dem voters have zero loyalty. Look at the Clown Show on the other side. When push came to shove the Ted Cruz voters who hated Trump (including Cruz who Trump accused of being the son of JFK's killer) still voted for him. The Kasich supporters who have zero in common with Trump still voted GOP. All those GOPers that admonished his behavior towards women still plugged their nose and stayed true. The McCain worshippers still put his name down despite his mocking McCain's being a POW. Dems dont do that. Dems care about issues to the point of fanaticism and if they dont like your position they are more likely to walk away. In 2000 a nice chunk in the wrong states voted for Nader over him and that screwed him. In 2004 enough believed the "Flip Flopper" crap and the "Swiftboat" nonsense and feared being branded "Un-American" which is why Dubya got re-elected. Plus both were boring as hell, the kiss of death.

You can pretend it is the Primaries that are the problem but it isnt the Primaries that are preventing the so called better candidates from moving up the ladder. The problem is those candidates dont exist because the Dems dont know how to cultivate them. The Dems whether on the Federal, State or local level are getting destroyed because their strategies are horrible. When you cant get people to win local elections they have no chance to ascend.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

One of the few silver linings of Hillary losing is their entire whiny shtick that everything is always everyone else's fault -- that they can never fail but only be failed -- is on the way out with them. The Clintonistas are still a big problem but they would have been far bigger had she won. And the Clintonista hangers on candidates haven't fared well nationally. Terry McAuliff and Rahm Emanuel are not walking through the White House door. John Podesta isn't going to be anybody's chief of staff.

We dodged a bullet because they could have become like the Bushes, with their own versions of Rumsfeld and Cheney clogging up the party arteries for another decade. As it is the younger generation of Clinton jock sniffers is only bending the knee to get the blessing -- the one lesson they absorbed from Bill and Hill is being disingenuous is a path to power with few responsibilities once you achieve it. Note that weirdly enough the Bushes, for all their sins, always pay their debts. The Clintons never did, right up until they paid the ultimate price that November night and, typically, took all of us with them.

Yeah we sure dodged a bullet. Thank God Clinton did win think how bad things would be

(you realize when you say stuff like that you are proving Rover's point)

 

[mookie1995]

What makes you think liberals stay home in the midterms? It may be moderates. In my experience on both sides the extremists are far more committed and savvy than moderates. One of the differences in voter turnout is that the GOP appeals to their base while the Democrats ignore theirs.

The Democrats fail because their power structure has benefited from the last 30 years so they want to tinker around the edges. The country as a whole has been bent over by the 1% so they look for real change, even when that change is in the form of a sociopathic clown like Trump. But the Dems won't do anything real because too many of them are the 1%.

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[mookie1995]

Kep, this is why you're still part of the problem. You want the party to accede to your "demands" 100% or you are happy with losing as long as you stay true to your blessed principles. I missed the memo where we all take our orders from you. P !ssing and moaning because a Dem doesn't open up with a Single Player or 76% tax rate proposal? Good lord.

If Dem voters were as liberal as you, Bernie would have been the nominee despite any vast conspiracies from evil genius and brilliant political strategist Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Lizzy Warren will be the 2020 nominee if that's the case. If either of those people didn't/don't win, you need to accept that you won't get 100% of what you want because your personal brand of liberalism isn't dominant, but make peace with that and work with what's available.

Kep can't believe tD won.... nobody he knows voted for him

 

[geezer]

Methinks you haven't been paying attention.

To who, or what outlet, exactly? You have a link? You show me an outlet saying "every terrorist is a conservative (liberal)", I'll show you a political agenda. Obviously.
I'm so tired of people (most egregiously republicans) playing party politics while the world burns. At the very least, any functioning society should be able to retire people like Trump and Arpiao from public life permanently by their 21st birthday.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

When Bernie was projected to crush Donald in a general election and Hillary was a coin flip that tells you a lot about their choice of candidate in this race.

As for the primary itself you have a system where the Dems choose who vote and in some states you have people who couldn't end vote for Bernie because of the rules in place about registration (specifically NY). It didn't help that he came in super late and so I understand that he is more to blame than the party itself for his primary loss. That doesn't mean he couldn't have won a general election either. The idea that him losing the primary is some sort of magic bullet argument to his electability in a general is falacious due to the obvious differences between how the two elections work. One system favors the establishment dems and the other doesn't. One probably overstates the impact of black voters compared to a general election etc. Bernie won more open primaries if I'm not mistaken.

As for super delegates the only reason they exist is to pick the best candidate. They did a great job of that :eyeroll:. But in reality voters seeing on every major news outlet huge super delegate lead before a vote has been cast probably has some effect on Bernie voters not thinking he has a chance and there's a momentum effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

As for DWS I don't think she's as much to blame for he primary results as even Bernie himself. But there's a reason she was forced to resign as well.

And for your GOP comparison the problem you have is that all the morons who still vote R in 2017 don't hate Trump. They make false equivalencies or excuses for literally everything he does like Sicatoka. They're the fascist party that will lower your (but mostly rich peoples') taxes and their voters are too stupid to think fascism can happen in the US. The Dems don't have an identity other than lesser of two evils and when the cards are stacked against you in terms of voter suppression and what not, you're gonna need to do better than that.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I'm starting to get to the point where I look at establishment as a positive. On both sides.

Keeping them in power means we don't get extremists. I'm getting more and more ok with establishment.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I'm starting to get to the point where I look at establishment as a positive. On both sides.

Keeping them in power means we don't get extremists. I'm getting more and more ok with establishment.

I can fully understand this viewpoint. I really can.

However, that's when even MORE extremists are liable to surface, and that REALLY scares me. They weasel into the establishment, and brick by brick.....then boom.

 

[trixR4kids]

I'm starting to get to the point where I look at establishment as a positive. On both sides.

Keeping them in power means we don't get extremists. I'm getting more and more ok with establishment.

Given how far this country has moved to the right since Nixon or so, I'm going to heavily disagree.

 

[joecct]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Handy

The indictment of DWS was her ignoring the state races in favor of the Washington races. This enabled the GOP to begin to run the table at the state (farm system) level.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

When Bernie was projected to crush Donald in a general election and Hillary was a coin flip that tells you a lot about their choice of candidate in this race.

As for the primary itself you have a system where the Dems choose who vote and in some states you have people who couldn't end vote for Bernie because of the rules in place about registration (specifically NY). It didn't help that he came in super late and so I understand that he is more to blame than the party itself for his primary loss. That doesn't mean he couldn't have won a general election either. The idea that him losing the primary is some sort of magic bullet argument to his electability in a general is falacious due to the obvious differences between how the two elections work. One system favors the establishment dems and the other doesn't. One probably overstates the impact of black voters compared to a general election etc. Bernie won more open primaries if I'm not mistaken.

As for super delegates the only reason they exist is to pick the best candidate. They did a great job of that :eyeroll:. But in reality voters seeing on every major news outlet huge super delegate lead before a vote has been cast probably has some effect on Bernie voters not thinking he has a chance and there's a momentum effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

As for DWS I don't think she's as much to blame for he primary results as even Bernie himself. But there's a reason she was forced to resign as well.

And for your GOP comparison the problem you have is that all the morons who still vote R in 2017 don't hate Trump. They make false equivalencies or excuses for literally everything he does like Sicatoka. They're the fascist party that will lower your (but mostly rich peoples') taxes and their voters are too stupid to think fascism can happen in the US. The Dems don't have an identity other than lesser of two evils and when the cards are stacked against you in terms of voter suppression and what not, you're gonna need to do better than that.

So you have no answers. Just as I thought.

If Bernie was projected to win why didnt he beat Hillary? He had ample opportunity and more than enough money. He didnt win because people didnt vote for him. How is that the fault of the Primaries? How was he going to win in the general if he couldnt even win a primary? Better yet outside of outright rigging it how was he Democratic Party supposed to ensure he was the candidate? The whole point of the Primaries is to let the candidates fight it out to see who the people choose.

And the Superdelegates didnt stop Obama from beating Clinton...if Bernie voters stayed home because of the SDs then they have no one to blame but themselves. SDs can change their support on a whim, if the Bernie voters cant be bothered to fight for their candidate then I have zero sympathy for them. (and again that goes back to the voters not the Democratic Primaries)

So again you say the Primaries are the problem and the only evidence you have is that they lead to Clinton (D) (a more than qualified candidate) beating Bernie (I). I dont think you are proving the point you think you are. The problem isnt the system, the problem is the Dems and their voters. They have weak candidates and no loyalty and if the candidate doesnt inspire them they stay home. Dems dont play for blood, they play "For the Good of the Game". The Dems are like the Twins...they do things "The Right Way" and it is great to see until they face the Yankees or Red Sox (the GOP) who are in it to win it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Handy

The indictment of DWS was her ignoring the state races in favor of the Washington races. This enabled the GOP to begin to run the table at the state (farm system) level.

DWS was a horrid Party Leader. Trust me I never liked her as she represents everything wrong with the Party. They need a Howard Dean style person in charge, he got it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So, anyone taking bets we default on our debt?

Senator Paul and Cruz have come out against Debt Ceiling funding being tied to Hurricane Harvey. Kepler promised a clean bill. Now it's not even clean. AND, Trump just threw a MOAB into Congress by rescinding DACA so they're all distracted.

They have very little time to get the Debt Ceiling passed and without it Harvey gets NO relief cause there's no money in FEMA coffers (another grand strategy by Trump).

Bye Bye Credit. Saw Pawlenty do it to Minnesota. It's the Republican way. And no one loves defaulting on credit more than your current President.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So, anyone taking bets we default on our debt?

Senator Paul and Cruz have come out against Debt Ceiling funding being tied to Hurricane Harvey. Kepler promised a clean bill. Now it's not even clean. AND, Trump just threw a MOAB into Congress by rescinding DACA so they're all distracted.

They have very little time to get the Debt Ceiling passed and without it Harvey gets NO relief cause there's no money in FEMA coffers (another grand strategy by Trump).

Bye Bye Credit. Saw Pawlenty do it to Minnesota. It's the Republican way. And no one loves defaulting on credit more than your current President.

that'll teach the chinese a thing or two..

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So you have no answers. Just as I thought.

As to how to create a more fair open process? Yeah I do and I just laid out some of the problems and how they can be fixed. Get rid of superdelegates, open up the primaries etc. If people in NY literally can't vote for Bernie because of their arcane primary rules then that's a huge problem that needs to be fixed and creates a huge advantage for the establishment.

If Bernie was projected to win why didnt he beat Hillary? He had ample opportunity and more than enough money. He didnt win because people didnt vote for him. How is that the fault of the Primaries? How was he going to win in the general if he couldnt even win a primary? Better yet outside of outright rigging it how was he Democratic Party supposed to ensure he was the candidate? The whole point of the Primaries is to let the candidates fight it out to see who the people choose.

I already explained this. You're just doubling down while ignoring basically all my points which isn't exactly an honest way to debate and is something Flag would do.

And the Superdelegates didnt stop Obama from beating Clinton...if Bernie voters stayed home because of the SDs then they have no one to blame but themselves. SDs can change their support on a whim, if the Bernie voters cant be bothered to fight for their candidate then I have zero sympathy for them. (and again that goes back to the voters not the Democratic Primaries)

Not as familiar with that race and can't really speak to it. Did Clinton just automatically start out with all the super delegates and every media outlet reported it? If so good on him for overcoming it but that doesn't mean it isn't/wasn't an issue.

So again you say the Primaries are the problem and the only evidence you have is that they lead to Clinton (D) (a more than qualified candidate) beating Bernie (I).

Thanks Tucker Carlson

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So, anyone taking bets we default on our debt?

Senator Paul and Cruz have come out against Debt Ceiling funding being tied to Hurricane Harvey. Kepler promised a clean bill. Now it's not even clean. AND, Trump just threw a MOAB into Congress by rescinding DACA so they're all distracted.

They have very little time to get the Debt Ceiling passed and without it Harvey gets NO relief cause there's no money in FEMA coffers (another grand strategy by Trump).

Bye Bye Credit. Saw Pawlenty do it to Minnesota. It's the Republican way. And no one loves defaulting on credit more than your current President.

I am. Name your odds.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I am. Name your odds.

2:1

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

To who, or what outlet, exactly? You have a link? You show me an outlet saying "every terrorist is a conservative (liberal)", I'll show you a political agenda. Obviously.
I'm so tired of people (most egregiously republicans) playing party politics while the world burns. At the very least, any functioning society should be able to retire people like Trump and Arpiao from public life permanently by their 21st birthday.

I don't see any media outlets labeling anything "terrorism" unless it's done by people with dark skin, funny-sounding names, and who worship some strange god.

Christ, they didn't even label the DC sniper or the anthrax mailings terrorism. Was the Unabomber even labeled terrorism? No, just some lone nutjob mass murderer.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

2:1

Which side are you taking? Because there ain't no way in hell we're defaulting