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POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

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Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.


Are you drunk?
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Are you drunk?
Nope. The term "baboon" is often equated with a racial history. Why does it HAVE to be? Can't we change it? Yes, this echoes the "Porch Monkey" debate in Clerks 2, but that one was a little more specific.

So, in essence. if someone says someone else is acting in a primordial way, if they are not black, it's a-OK, but if black, ZOMG RACIST!

That's rather racist in itself, associating that term with a certain race.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.

Sorry they mean two different things. I would retract your statement before you get flamed.

WE cant change anything...if Black people are offended over a monkey reference (and for good reason as you very well know) it is not our place to tell them otherwise. That is an arrogance beyond all arrogance.
 
Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.

no they're not. And your being maliciously obtuse if you think so.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

no they're not. And your being maliciously obtuse if you think so.

so it's an insult to negros to call tD a baboon?

is that the concern here you have with brent's question?
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.

Here's the thing- historically, nobody has compared white people to baboons justifying that they be treated in an inferior manner. On the other hand, blacks have, and many, many times.

It may *seem* to be wrong, but when you call one side a baboon, you are just regurgitating ideas that are supposed to mean black people are inferior, based on "science". When you call a white person that, there's no possible way that connection can be made, because it's never been done before.

So, on a historical basis, it's not an equal criticism.

If you make it equal, then you are just ignoring many, many years of racial bias that people have used to justify keeping people suppressed.

It's sort of like people pretending that having to deal with the stereotype of having fair skin and red hair is in anyway the same as racial minorities. Does not at all approach the same meaning.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So there's been a lot of news of identity politics being bad for Democrats. I can see both sides that it is and it isn't.

But lets take a small trip into the economic policies that bandumb want to focus on.

Start with healthcare- I just don't get the economic benefit for the country if they just get rid of the ACA. That throws a lot of people back on the sidewalk, which puts their economic well being at serious risk. And the "replace" ideas all center on giving people who don't spend large proportion of their income more money. Seems to me, giving the bottom 10% the same amount of benefits will put far, far more money back into circulation than the 1%- who save at a MUCH higher rate- and rarely use it.

Tax reform- same general idea- we want to pretend that giving money to the top group is going to trickle down? Just basic numbers tells you that bubbling up is better that trickling down- the less income you have, the higher the rate of relative spending you do. So spreading $1B in tax cuts will put more in the economy for poor people than rich people. When you are forced to spend your entire income to survive, all of that money just starts to rotate through the economy. At very high incomes, more of it is just banked and saved. One doesn't need an economic theory to do that simple math.

Immigration- who is going to replace all of the lost workers that are being deported or prevented from coming into the country? I know people *think* that unemployed Americans will take up those jobs, but when has that EVER happened? Regardless of the problem that they will require a much higher wage to be convinced to work that hard. Whole food industries revolved around immigrant workers of some type. Are we prepared to spend a lot more money on food? And in that thinking, is it really worth spending an EXTRA many billions of dollars to build a wall?

Trade protection- I know it's a great idea in concept. But on a historical basis, has it ever worked? Ever? So far, this administration has talked about some steel policies- which, so far, has resulted in an INCREASE of steel imports. Not a decrease.

Regulation reform- I'm 100% with the idea of reviewing regulations to see if they make sense- a good example is taxis vs ride sharing. They provide the exact same service to consumers, so they should be working on the exact same level- one way or another. On the other hand, the theory that regulations are bad for business isn't correct. There are a number of regulations that are very even across an industry, and also have provided a large number of highly skilled jobs that pay very, very well. I work in one, and I know others here work in others. So just a blanket reduction in regulations isn't a good idea for jobs. And if you also examine the intent of the regulations- some are there to protect heath- which reduces the healthcare burden on the economy; some are there so that people can not fleece the public- again, good for the general economy.

Coal.... which can also be talked about for other industries in decline. Why do we continue to pretend that going green is the reason coal is struggling? Everyone knows that it's natural gas that's the real reason. Even a recent economic study done by this administration says that. By forcing them into work- you are essentially nationalizing the industry. I was under the impression that we didn't like communism. Or at least you would have to increase the cost of NG power production to make the economics of coal to work. So either we pay taxes to coal industries or we pay more for power- neither of which seem like a good idea for the economy. How about we figure out how those families were attracted to move to coal country and use that reason to move them back out?

We can go on, but if a Democrat really rode heavily on those items now, and then when things start to go wrong (which MANY of us expect they will), one can put a lot of specific blame on this administration that they are saying one thing and doing another for their voters. That would attract a lot of people back to the democratic party.
 
So there's been a lot of news of identity politics being bad for Democrats. I can see both sides that it is and it isn't.

But lets take a small trip into the economic policies that bandumb want to focus on.

Start with healthcare- I just don't get the economic benefit for the country if they just get rid of the ACA. That throws a lot of people back on the sidewalk, which puts their economic well being at serious risk. And the "replace" ideas all center on giving people who don't spend large proportion of their income more money. Seems to me, giving the bottom 10% the same amount of benefits will put far, far more money back into circulation than the 1%- who save at a MUCH higher rate- and rarely use it.

Tax reform- same general idea- we want to pretend that giving money to the top group is going to trickle down? Just basic numbers tells you that bubbling up is better that trickling down- the less income you have, the higher the rate of relative spending you do. So spreading $1B in tax cuts will put more in the economy for poor people than rich people. When you are forced to spend your entire income to survive, all of that money just starts to rotate through the economy. At very high incomes, more of it is just banked and saved. One doesn't need an economic theory to do that simple math.

Immigration- who is going to replace all of the lost workers that are being deported or prevented from coming into the country? I know people *think* that unemployed Americans will take up those jobs, but when has that EVER happened? Regardless of the problem that they will require a much higher wage to be convinced to work that hard. Whole food industries revolved around immigrant workers of some type. Are we prepared to spend a lot more money on food? And in that thinking, is it really worth spending an EXTRA many billions of dollars to build a wall?

Trade protection- I know it's a great idea in concept. But on a historical basis, has it ever worked? Ever? So far, this administration has talked about some steel policies- which, so far, has resulted in an INCREASE of steel imports. Not a decrease.

Regulation reform- I'm 100% with the idea of reviewing regulations to see if they make sense- a good example is taxis vs ride sharing. They provide the exact same service to consumers, so they should be working on the exact same level- one way or another. On the other hand, the theory that regulations are bad for business isn't correct. There are a number of regulations that are very even across an industry, and also have provided a large number of highly skilled jobs that pay very, very well. I work in one, and I know others here work in others. So just a blanket reduction in regulations isn't a good idea for jobs. And if you also examine the intent of the regulations- some are there to protect heath- which reduces the healthcare burden on the economy; some are there so that people can not fleece the public- again, good for the general economy.

Coal.... which can also be talked about for other industries in decline. Why do we continue to pretend that going green is the reason coal is struggling? Everyone knows that it's natural gas that's the real reason. Even a recent economic study done by this administration says that. By forcing them into work- you are essentially nationalizing the industry. I was under the impression that we didn't like communism. Or at least you would have to increase the cost of NG power production to make the economics of coal to work. So either we pay taxes to coal industries or we pay more for power- neither of which seem like a good idea for the economy. How about we figure out how those families were attracted to move to coal country and use that reason to move them back out?

We can go on, but if a Democrat really rode heavily on those items now, and then when things start to go wrong (which MANY of us expect they will), one can put a lot of specific blame on this administration that they are saying one thing and doing another for their voters. That would attract a lot of people back to the democratic party.

Did you intentionally or unintentionally leave out spending?
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Here's the thing- historically, nobody has compared white people to baboons justifying that they be treated in an inferior manner. On the other hand, blacks have, and many, many times.

It may *seem* to be wrong, but when you call one side a baboon, you are just regurgitating ideas that are supposed to mean black people are inferior, based on "science". When you call a white person that, there's no possible way that connection can be made, because it's never been done before.

So, on a historical basis, it's not an equal criticism.

If you make it equal, then you are just ignoring many, many years of racial bias that people have used to justify keeping people suppressed.

It's sort of like people pretending that having to deal with the stereotype of having fair skin and red hair is in anyway the same as racial minorities. Does not at all approach the same meaning.

Thank you, this is perfectly to the point and eloquently said.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Did you intentionally or unintentionally leave out spending?

Trump's "focus on spending" comes down to a huge boost in the military budget and a tax cut for the 1% that will blow an even bigger hole in the debt.

The Democrats have been the more responsible party on spending for 25 years now. "Spending" for Republicans is an empty phrase, reduced to the emotional dog whistle "let's stick it to the whores and n-ggers."
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So there's been a lot of news of identity politics being bad for Democrats. I can see both sides that it is and it isn't.

But lets take a small trip into the economic policies that bandumb want to focus on.

Start with healthcare- I just don't get the economic benefit for the country if they just get rid of the ACA. That throws a lot of people back on the sidewalk, which puts their economic well being at serious risk. And the "replace" ideas all center on giving people who don't spend large proportion of their income more money. Seems to me, giving the bottom 10% the same amount of benefits will put far, far more money back into circulation than the 1%- who save at a MUCH higher rate- and rarely use it.

Tax reform- same general idea- we want to pretend that giving money to the top group is going to trickle down? Just basic numbers tells you that bubbling up is better that trickling down- the less income you have, the higher the rate of relative spending you do. So spreading $1B in tax cuts will put more in the economy for poor people than rich people. When you are forced to spend your entire income to survive, all of that money just starts to rotate through the economy. At very high incomes, more of it is just banked and saved. One doesn't need an economic theory to do that simple math.

Immigration- who is going to replace all of the lost workers that are being deported or prevented from coming into the country? I know people *think* that unemployed Americans will take up those jobs, but when has that EVER happened? Regardless of the problem that they will require a much higher wage to be convinced to work that hard. Whole food industries revolved around immigrant workers of some type. Are we prepared to spend a lot more money on food? And in that thinking, is it really worth spending an EXTRA many billions of dollars to build a wall?

Trade protection- I know it's a great idea in concept. But on a historical basis, has it ever worked? Ever? So far, this administration has talked about some steel policies- which, so far, has resulted in an INCREASE of steel imports. Not a decrease.

Regulation reform- I'm 100% with the idea of reviewing regulations to see if they make sense- a good example is taxis vs ride sharing. They provide the exact same service to consumers, so they should be working on the exact same level- one way or another. On the other hand, the theory that regulations are bad for business isn't correct. There are a number of regulations that are very even across an industry, and also have provided a large number of highly skilled jobs that pay very, very well. I work in one, and I know others here work in others. So just a blanket reduction in regulations isn't a good idea for jobs. And if you also examine the intent of the regulations- some are there to protect heath- which reduces the healthcare burden on the economy; some are there so that people can not fleece the public- again, good for the general economy.

Coal.... which can also be talked about for other industries in decline. Why do we continue to pretend that going green is the reason coal is struggling? Everyone knows that it's natural gas that's the real reason. Even a recent economic study done by this administration says that. By forcing them into work- you are essentially nationalizing the industry. I was under the impression that we didn't like communism. Or at least you would have to increase the cost of NG power production to make the economics of coal to work. So either we pay taxes to coal industries or we pay more for power- neither of which seem like a good idea for the economy. How about we figure out how those families were attracted to move to coal country and use that reason to move them back out?

We can go on, but if a Democrat really rode heavily on those items now, and then when things start to go wrong (which MANY of us expect they will), one can put a lot of specific blame on this administration that they are saying one thing and doing another for their voters. That would attract a lot of people back to the democratic party.

From an economic standpoint...regulatory and healthcare might be a slight positive (while being a net loser for society). But Trade Protection, Immigration and Coal are all losers. Trade protection is a terrible loser on many levels leaving business weaker and raising consumer prices for Americans.

Did you intentionally or unintentionally leave out spending?

Despite the rhetoric (which seems to work), the GOP spends just as much as Dems. Its just that the GOPs money goes to societal low/non value adds.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Did you intentionally or unintentionally leave out spending?

How do you want to interpret it?

Some think government spending is the worst thing in the world. But you also have to admit, it also employs a lot of people, and those people add a lot of monetary circulation into our consumer based economy. If you stop or reduce that, I don't see that being a very good thing to the overall economy.

The idea of wanting to shut down the government is foolish, too- that will have a huge impact on the overall economy, since it stops a lot of people spending money.

Like it or not, the fact that the government employs so many people- that's an effective way to make sure that our economy is constantly flowing.

Right now, about 22 million people are employed by the government in some way or another. Every 1% of that cut is 220,000 people that instantly get added to the unemployment lines. Where are you going to find them jobs?

So some of us may end up not paying as much in taxes- but is that really worth cutting that many jobs??? I don't think so. Especially when you look at WHO is targeted to get those tax cuts- as they spend much less money on living (aka, they save more) as most people do. So the net effect on the overall economy is a net negative.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

From an economic standpoint...regulatory and healthcare might be a slight positive (while being a net loser for society). But Trade Protection, Immigration and Coal are all losers. Trade protection is a terrible loser on many levels leaving business weaker and raising consumer prices for Americans.

Isn't part of government responsibility to help keep society in a good position??? Is it really a good idea to let society suffer just to make money?

And if we let society suffer just for money- how far should we take that? We've been clawing out of that path for 200 years, between environmental problems that directly cause health issues to labor issues where the workers get dumped on in the interest of making more money. And that "dumping" has included low wages, child workers, and slavery.

Seems like keeping a civil society is a good idea to trade off some profits.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Let's just say, for the debate point, that Obama acted exactly like Trump. Never happened, I know this. BUT, let's just say they did. And a random person both said they were acting like baboons. Primordial. With Trump, that's okay b/c he's white. But suddenly it's racist b/c he's Obama? Makes zero sense to me if one wants to rid the world of racist comments.

Both are being treated equally in criticism.

Brent loves his made-up hypotheticals.

Allows him to not have to address issues that are actually happening. The arguments he wins in his own head are so much more satisfying.
 
Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So, a handful of white people think black people are "overly sensitive" for considering something to be racist. Leaving aside whether that's even logically possible or whether "racist" is defined by the historically-oppressed group, not the historically-oppressing group, I'll just leave it with this. Would these steadfast logicians be comfortable explaining their position face to face with strangers from the historically-oppressed group?

My instinct is if you wouldn't say it to the man on the street then you probably know there's something casuistic in your reasoning. Your motive for your reasoning is a matter for your own heart.
 
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