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POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

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SJHovey said:
Honestly, that's one of the things that really bothers me about this event.

This didn't feel like a situation where you had the right wing mob start to attack some bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time, and another mob of people came together to protect the victim and fight back. This felt like an anti-Trump mob, a group angry, bitter and frustrated with an election nine months ago, spoiling for a fight, and as you noted in your post, now feeling a whole lot better about themselves for extracting their pound of flesh even at the cost of some poor girl's life.
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Are you sure you're not thinking of the ones who came armed to the teeth shouting racial epithets and threatening people with violence/actually killing people?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

What would people think about having a park/museum someplace remembering and 'honoring' the confederacy than getting rid of everything else? A lot of these statues were put up way after the war.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Well, it's true. The economic freedom of owning other people.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Drew S. said:
Read her statement again. She exempted people from larger states. Doesn't that imply something?
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I'm going to put this in a different format that UNO did- as there were pauses in the message- as in different paragraphs.

"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
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That FIRST paragraph is the part about the deplorables. "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic-- you name it" part.

And you'll note that the end she says- "they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America"

THEN she went on to say

"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
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Who are a part of the population that SHE wants to appeal to. These are people who she says the government and economy let them down, specifically noting that with the states you point out.

So the fact that you put those two paragraphs together says to me that you are putting really horrible people in the same boat who have just been let down by the system. Not Secretary Clinton, YOU. Or at least someone convinced you that you should conclude that. She says "I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California"- do you really think her "friends" are the racist xenophobes? Does that really make sense?

They are completely different explanations of different people. One that are horrible, the other that should get help to get out of their hole.

So to answer your question, no, I don't see any "exemptions from large states" as you think. I see that she wants to appeal to many of the people who are mysteriously drawn to dump. She honestly feels bad for them. "Those are the people we have to understand and empathize with as well" should make that pretty clear.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

trixR4kids said:
Are you sure you're not thinking of the ones who came armed to the teeth shouting racial epithets and threatening people with violence/actually killing people?
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As I said before, as soon as their abhorrent speech turns into criminal actions, let the authorities handle it. The limited footage that I saw on the evening news and CNN.com made it appear that the violence occurred when the protesters met up with the anti-protesters. But if there was violence by the protesters before the confrontation by the anti-protesters, call the cops. I can't believe people think that a better alternative is just assembling your own mob and wading in.
 
SJHovey said:
As I said before, as soon as their abhorrent speech turns into criminal actions, let the authorities handle it. The limited footage that I saw on the evening news and CNN.com made it appear that the violence occurred when the protesters met up with the anti-protesters. But if there was violence by the protesters before the confrontation by the anti-protesters, call the cops. I can't believe people think that a better alternative is just assembling your own mob and wading in.
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Right but they were peacefully protesting as outlined in the constitution. Pretty much the opposite of the mob you're describing.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

SJHovey said:
As I said before, as soon as their abhorrent speech turns into criminal actions, let the authorities handle it. The limited footage that I saw on the evening news and CNN.com made it appear that the violence occurred when the protesters met up with the anti-protesters. But if there was violence by the protesters before the confrontation by the anti-protesters, call the cops. I can't believe people think that a better alternative is just assembling your own mob and wading in.
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That's a great idea.

If, in the experience of history it actually works. It didn't in Germany, it didn't in Italy, it actually didn't in England, too (but the nazis in England got shouted down enough to go away).

Black Lives Matter have protests where they are protesting that they should get the rights and protections that everybody should get, equally, by law. Mostly they are non-violent rallies. And they are consistently met with scorn and police with some kind of riot gear.

neo-nazis have protests where they are protesting that other people should NOT get the rights that they get, as they are superior. They came to the rally armed to the teeth. And they were met with some police just there to direct traffic.

So if the police react that way, how can you realistically expect them to react the way you suggest?

There is a real world out there.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

geezer said:
I agree. Regardless of what tone we take in political discussions with people we each engage with (I was talking about engaging with your average Trump voter), the actual terrorists need to be locked up. Every person, especially conservatives, need to be clear in condemning the nazis. We also shouldn't play identity politics by equating every gun owner or white man with them, identity politics just causes more problems.
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I had a Trump voter staying at my house all week...he condemned the Nazis but then blamed the media. Trumpers are a scary bunch.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

SJHovey said:
As I said before, as soon as their abhorrent speech turns into criminal actions, let the authorities handle it. The limited footage that I saw on the evening news and CNN.com made it appear that the violence occurred when the protesters met up with the anti-protesters. But if there was violence by the protesters before the confrontation by the anti-protesters, call the cops. I can't believe people think that a better alternative is just assembling your own mob and wading in.
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So a bunch of Rednecks with small dicks and automatic weapons cant handle when a bunch Liberal Elitists and Der Darky Friends tell them they are wrong so they go violent? Pretty easy to see who is to blame for what happened and it isnt the Anti-Protesters.

But yeah when people are protecting statues of traitors and wearing uniforms of Facists who millions died defeating we should just ignore it cause it will just go away. How did that work in the South post Civil War?

Where was all "turn the other cheek" stuff at Standing Rock? Can I victim blame the cops and the oil company?
 
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Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Handyman said:
I had a Trump voter staying at my house all week...he condemned the Nazis but then blamed the media. Trumpers are a scary bunch.
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Soul-searching isn't a conservative value. They view it as weak.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Walking through the break room, someone had the TV in there tuned to Fox News. Their graphics had written that Trump was branding the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and white supremacists as criminals, thugs. It only took him until today to actually denounce them. The funny part is that there went his reelection bid.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

SJHovey said:
Honestly, that's one of the things that really bothers me about this event.

This didn't feel like a situation where you had the right wing mob start to attack some bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time, and another mob of people came together to protect the victim and fight back. This felt like an anti-Trump mob, a group angry, bitter and frustrated with an election nine months ago, spoiling for a fight, and as you noted in your post, now feeling a whole lot better about themselves for extracting their pound of flesh even at the cost of some poor girl's life.
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Go incognito and do a little fact checking. You might be surprised. Probably not in a good way.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

SJHovey said:
As I said before, as soon as their abhorrent speech turns into criminal actions, let the authorities handle it. The limited footage that I saw on the evening news and CNN.com made it appear that the violence occurred when the protesters met up with the anti-protesters. But if there was violence by the protesters before the confrontation by the anti-protesters, call the cops. I can't believe people think that a better alternative is just assembling your own mob and wading in.
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The cops were ordered to stand down. There's video of it. Just look up Millie Weaver's reports from this past weekend.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Rover said:
So, the question from Muslim apologists seems to be don't condemn all Muslims. Well, I do!
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fyp

SJHovey said:
Honestly, that's one of the things that really bothers me about this event.

This didn't feel like a situation where you had the right wing mob start to attack some bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time, and another mob of people came together to protect the victim and fight back. This felt like an anti-Trump mob, a group angry, bitter and frustrated with an election nine months ago, spoiling for a fight...
Click to expand...

Whether or not those attacked were there on purpose is immaterial. And does one really need to be angry about the election to abhor white supremacy, want it squashed from gaining a foothold in this country? I'd love to believe you're simply playing Devil's Advocate but your posting history gives that away.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Trump's threat of Venezuela military action could bolster Maduro

It won't belong before every tinpot despot rattles their saber.

"Maduro could not have asked for a greater gift from Trump," said David Smilde, senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America, a human rights think tank. "He provided substance for Maduro's heretofore implausible conspiracy theories."

"It has threatened to deflate the emerging regional consensus regarding Venezuela," Smilde said. "Today the countries that on Tuesday signed on to a strong statement criticizing Maduro's authoritarian direction are spending their time criticizing Trump's statements."
Click to expand...
 
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