POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I think people would care more if there was some real evidence of collusion. Maybe more will come out in time but so far it has been pretty underwhelming.

So IF there is no collusion, you are 100% ok with the russians trying to influence the election, then, right? Their hacking into our system, which IS illegal, is ok. And some of the appearance of hacking into the actual voting systems is ok, too.

Is that how you feel? Just because you think dumps morons are not involved, this is all about nothing?

Can you EVER answer that question????

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You make good points, les.

However, Hillary Clinton is a person who exists so we can't be too sure about all this Trump stuff.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

LOL. You wish, conservatives.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...y-clinton-not-dead-heart-attack-fake-news-si/

 

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

What planet are you on? No one cares about anything beyond our borders. America First!!!11!1! So no matter what it doesn't matter.

Sometimes you post things that make me think and stimulate dialogue and then you post something like this. Makes me think of a kid who is scared of Mickey Mouse at Disney. Parents say there is a man in there, it isn't really Micky. Kid has a moment of insight, understands that it isn't scary if there is a man inside. In minutes the only thing they retain is it isn't scary. They forget the man is in there.

Exactly what do you think you should see to make you not concerned. The vast majority of sentient people can see there is something to be concerned about. The entire intelligence community has said this is a real thing and we should be very concerned. They actually agree with each other (something that should make this classified as a miracle). During the recent hearings even the GOP stalwarts on the committee admitted there was reason to be concern. The entire Legislature minus 3 passed sanctions and went against Trump. They passed a resolution that will prevent him from replacing the AG while they are out on break to make sure Mueller can continue without being fired. They have convened 2 Grand Juries- not exactly easy to do without some sort of evidence. There is also evidence this has happened in Europe. I know anything outside the border usually doesn't count but this goes to establishing a pattern.

Seems like those who support the GOP and/Trump can't deal with the concerns because that might be seen as believing the real enemy- the Dems. Even tho the GOP controls both House and Senate and has voted to protect the special Prosecutor and has convened a number of committees to investigate. At some point the smoke coming out the windows and the doors becomes so intense you have to entertain the possibility there is fire inside. Whether you totally believe it or think there is only a very powerful smoke machine (unlikely) you should at least prepare for response to fire when that fire is more likely than not. That they messed with the elections isn't in doubt. That we should be figuring out how to prevent incursion again isn't in doubt. Like any disease the more you know about it the better you can treat it but you don't sit back and watch the disease go nuts while you wait for the culture results. You throw the most likely antibiotic at it. Or maybe 2 and an antifungal /antiviral if it is really bad. You certainly don't throw away the culture before it has been incubating for a week.

There is no doubt Russia tried to interfere or involve themselves or whatever with the election. I'm not disputing that at all. Is it the first time it has happened? Have we ever done it? I find it bizarre that for most people this is some shocking turn of events.

As far as Trump's involvement, I'm sorry but I just do not see it. For me collusion or conspiracy involve planning and strategy, none of which I have ever seen any evidence of. At most there was casual connection between the two parties. What connection I have seen was initiated by the other party. It's funny and ironic that people rail non-stop about how disorganized and incompetent Trump & Co is, but then in the same breath believe he pulled off some great conspiracy with a foreign government to get the most important job on the planet. I would bet everything I own that if Russia had anything on Trump colluding with them they would a million percent leak it. They want nothing more than to cause chaos in our country and that most certainly would do the trick. There are many things you can criticize Trump fairly for but Russia is not one of them.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

So IF there is no collusion, you are 100% ok with the russians trying to influence the election, then, right? Their hacking into our system, which IS illegal, is ok. And some of the appearance of hacking into the actual voting systems is ok, too.

Is that how you feel? Just because you think dumps morons are not involved, this is all about nothing?

No! It's been going on since the beginning of time though. It is something our country actively does. It is something out countries do to each other. This isn't some sort of new thing. I would be a lot more concerned if anyone interfered with the actual votes. We should be a lot more careful as far as making sure there is a foolproof way that votes are made and counted.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You make good points, les.

However, Hillary Clinton is a person who exists so we can't be too sure about all this Trump stuff.

True but one of grand juries is reportedly re Flynn. I don't personally care about who it gets. I care that it gets the people who should be gotten.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

Different from the past 25 years with Clintons. Investigation after investigation failed, as well as the impeachment trial, but the GOP could have cared less about their continued failures. It was the narrative they wanted and they got it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Different from the past 25 years with Clintons. Investigation after investigation failed, as well as the impeachment trial, but the GOP could have cared less about their continued failures. It was the narrative they wanted and they got it.

IMO, that is a big reason for this drawn-out wait. They don't want to, and cannot, fail. They want to do this once, and have it done right, and have it done without any questioning.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

There is no doubt Russia tried to interfere or involve themselves or whatever with the election. I'm not disputing that at all. Is it the first time it has happened? Have we ever done it? I find it bizarre that for most people this is some shocking turn of events.

As far as Trump's involvement, I'm sorry but I just do not see it. For me collusion or conspiracy involve planning and strategy, none of which I have ever seen any evidence of. At most there was casual connection between the two parties. What connection I have seen was initiated by the other party. It's funny and ironic that people rail non-stop about how disorganized and incompetent Trump & Co is, but then in the same breath believe he pulled off some great conspiracy with a foreign government to get the most important job on the planet. I would bet everything I own that if Russia had anything on Trump colluding with them they would a million percent leak it. They want nothing more than to cause chaos in our country and that most certainly would do the trick. There are many things you can criticize Trump fairly for but Russia is not one of them.

I don't think most of us would say this is new. The difference, IMHO, is the precision with which it can be carried out. All the research re psychology of marketing, social media etc is much more specific than it has been. Also it would not surprise me that actual ballots could be messed with altho I haven't seen anything about this yet that is hard evidence. I am not sure that is something that would come out. Most of the things leaked have leaked because the Admin is trying to cover things up and leaks stymied that. Heard an interesting analysis of why people leak things and the consensus is currently it is to protect the country from the inner enemy- Trump et al.

I am of 2 opinions about Trump. The man we see now has completely decompensated, is in full blown megalomania. Before it would seem that he had some fluid boundaries regarding what he thought he could get away with and what he thought he would need to do on the sly to get what he wanted. He also wasn't under the microscope as much so things may have slipped thru without being noted. As time has gone on he has become more emboldened. He now does things blatantly with no care for consequences and sees himself as invincible. He most definitely has lost his grip on reality and is behaving more and more bizarrely. I don't think you can judge previous actions by his blatant actions now. He has devolved over time.

I don't think Trump is a particularly smart man as in planning things on his own but I think he is an evil genius at seeing something he wants and using people to get what he wants. He has no conscience or sense of right and wrong that would stop him from trying to get what he wanted. It would not surprise me one bit that people working for him did things totally illegally. It would not surprise me if he knew they planned to do illegal things or had knowledge afterwards even if he didn't actually do them himself. It would not surprise me if he was approached, told they would help him be elected if he followed along. All of these do not require much planning, organization or thought on his part.

I would never make that bet. I can see no benefit for Russia to admit they did anything. They are in it for the long haul. 1) Trump just recently went completely round the bend. For all he is a nut he is fairly predictable and easily manipulated. Stroke his ego and you can do just about anything. 2)He has an obvious need to please Putin. He is more useful when he is trying to do that. 3) As long as he is in the WH they have a president who is ineffectual, weak, not trusted or respected by other world leaders. What better way to sow confusion that having someone who can't rally and may mess up any plan for the 'Free world. 4) having him continually sow doubt among his followers is way more useful to them than admitting they did something- divide and conquer is more effective than facing a united pi55ed off enemy.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Russia is definitely in it for the long haul. They want complete chaos for US politics. You know all those African countries where gov't changes regimes every few months because of revolts/coups/etc? That is what Russia wants for us. Complete disarray.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

Most of the time he won because he was able to draw things out to the point that people ran out of money or patience. He got away with a lot of things because he screwed people that could not afford to come after him. Owes/owed millions but mostly from screwing a large number of people not a few big ones. Anything he had that was a huge screw up he simply sold and screwed everyone involved.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

IMO, that is a big reason for this drawn-out wait. They don't want to, and cannot, fail. They want to do this once, and have it done right, and have it done without any questioning.

I guess I don't understand, Brent. Who do you mean by "they?" There certainly has not been a drawn out wait to this point, at least not compared to Clinton investigations. The GOP spent decades investigating Clintons and that worked to their favor. The longer investigations are drawn out, the less difference it makes if they fail.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I guess I don't understand, Brent. Who do you mean by "they?" There certainly has not been a drawn out wait to this point, at least not compared to Clinton investigations. The GOP spent decades investigating Clintons and that worked to their favor. The longer investigations are drawn out, the less difference it makes if they fail.

They = the people investigating.
You mentioned "investigation after investigation." This time around, that won't happen. It will be one giant monster of an investigation before a "real" action (court case) will happen. Not many lesser cases brought forward. I hope that makes it a little clearer.

And les, as POTUS, you don't think he can draw stuff out longer? I think part of all these hirings/firings are part of that. Keep those pieces moving around, in and out of the game, create more chaos. This time, he has the power of the POTUS behind him, where before he did not have that luxury.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

No! It's been going on since the beginning of time though. It is something our country actively does. It is something out countries do to each other. This isn't some sort of new thing. I would be a lot more concerned if anyone interfered with the actual votes. We should be a lot more careful as far as making sure there is a foolproof way that votes are made and counted.

So, then, why are you so interested in stopping the investigation? You want it to end because nobody has been charged with anything, yet.

You seem to diminish this by saying that it's been going on forever- seems to me that this is going on at a very new level. And there are new vulnerabilities that you seem to want to brush off as not a new thing. Do you really think our country goes and hacks into other countries leaders to leak bad information about it? Many call what was done an act of war- which may be a little extreme, but maybe it was farther than we think.

Still- given the way dumps idiots have been found- via simple phone calls to someone they should have KNOWN were going to have their phones tapped- they can easily collude to damage Secretary Clinton. This is one of those things that it does not take much effort, as it's not nearly some major operation that requires some high tech operation. This is just dump jr going to a meeting with the intention of getting dirt on Secretary Clinton. That's what he was told would happen, and that's what he wanted to happen.

Right there, it very much appears that there's some collusion- jr went to the russians to get information that was actually illegal to get. Not sure how you can brush that off so easily- he admitted that was true. But since he claims to not have gotten info, that it's ok??? Seriously?

On the other hand, we see dump come up with stuff against Secretary Clinton in ways he never had- and oddly enough, the russians did.

And the topper- the investigation as a whole. If dump comes out and says- "my guy had nothing to do with it, BUT we need to get to the bottom of this, and I fully support the investigation" that would be a very good indicator that he had nothing to do with it. Instead, we get- this is a witch hunt and we need to stop this at all costs. Again, the whole start of the investigation was to dig into the interference. Once it was found out that many of dumps transition team were in phone conversations with the russians, then we got a special investigator.

So it's interesting that you can put some very loose things together and say that Secretary Clinton should go to jail, but you can't put that together to see there are some real possibilities that bad things went on.

Oh, well.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

We should remind ourselves that if dump gets anything against him to end the Presidency of his, it won't be in a court. It will start in the house, and move to the senate. There is no court.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I don't think most of us would say this is new. The difference, IMHO, is the precision with which it can be carried out. All the research re psychology of marketing, social media etc is much more specific than it has been. Also it would not surprise me that actual ballots could be messed with altho I haven't seen anything about this yet that is hard evidence. I am not sure that is something that would come out. Most of the things leaked have leaked because the Admin is trying to cover things up and leaks stymied that. Heard an interesting analysis of why people leak things and the consensus is currently it is to protect the country from the inner enemy- Trump et al.

I am of 2 opinions about Trump. The man we see now has completely decompensated, is in full blown megalomania. Before it would seem that he had some fluid boundaries regarding what he thought he could get away with and what he thought he would need to do on the sly to get what he wanted. He also wasn't under the microscope as much so things may have slipped thru without being noted. As time has gone on he has become more emboldened. He now does things blatantly with no care for consequences and sees himself as invincible. He most definitely has lost his grip on reality and is behaving more and more bizarrely. I don't think you can judge previous actions by his blatant actions now. He has devolved over time.

I don't think Trump is a particularly smart man as in planning things on his own but I think he is an evil genius at seeing something he wants and using people to get what he wants. He has no conscience or sense of right and wrong that would stop him from trying to get what he wanted. It would not surprise me one bit that people working for him did things totally illegally. It would not surprise me if he knew they planned to do illegal things or had knowledge afterwards even if he didn't actually do them himself. It would not surprise me if he was approached, told they would help him be elected if he followed along. All of these do not require much planning, organization or thought on his part.

I would never make that bet. I can see no benefit for Russia to admit they did anything. They are in it for the long haul. 1) Trump just recently went completely round the bend. For all he is a nut he is fairly predictable and easily manipulated. Stroke his ego and you can do just about anything. 2)He has an obvious need to please Putin. He is more useful when he is trying to do that. 3) As long as he is in the WH they have a president who is ineffectual, weak, not trusted or respected by other world leaders. What better way to sow confusion that having someone who can't rally and may mess up any plan for the 'Free world. 4) having him continually sow doubt among his followers is way more useful to them than admitting they did something- divide and conquer is more effective than facing a united pi55ed off enemy.

Do you think the people below him are any more competent? It's been well documented that his campaign was completely disorganized and even Kushner has said as much. It's hard to reconcile that with some grand conspiracy and coverup.

I don't think Russia would come right out and admit they were colluding. I'm talking more about giving a journalist some sort of damming bit of information on the Trump campaign. You could be right that they are just biding their time, but the iron is pretty hot right now. And that is with the assumption that the Trump organization has been able to keep everything they have secret. To me those are just way to big of stretches.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You know how I know the Democrats arent ready for Prime Time...Stuff Like This

if you invited 20 Democratic and/or liberal partisans to a four-star, five-course meal at the finest restaurant in all Provence, at least eight of them would get up, cross the room, and start fighting over who gets to eat out of the dog's bowl. Presented with a legitimate national crisis in the White House, and presented with the golden political opportunity that said crisis is almost entirely the fault of the Republican Party, which has demonstrated that it is wholly incapable of handling it, the Democratic Party has a chance to realign the electoral map over (at least) the next four years. All that's required is shrewdness, patience, and the ability to resist cannibalizing themselves long enough to watch the dry rot collapse the other side entirely.

Fat fcking chance.

Right at the moment, the main issues within the Democratic Party seem to be, in no particular order: Kamala Harris: Threat or Menace?; Cory Booker: Sure, Legal Weed But Wall Street?; and, that evergreen squabble, Bernie Or Hillary; Why 2016 Will Never End. This is like that old Twilight Zone episode where The Major, The Clown, The Tramp, and The Bagpiper are all stuck in a windowless, impenetrable tube. Eventually, we discover that these characters are all dolls, and that the container is filled with a little kid's playthings. The current counterproductive exercises render promising Democratic politicians—including Harris and Booker—into toys for the ideological imagination, and not real people with the real potential to help end the political and governmental crisis in which the country placed itself last November.

The Democrats are already starting to eat their own. Kamala Harris has gone from a hero for persisting to now being labelled a villain by many in the party. (they are attacking her for being a sellout as well cause she dares talk to donors) Booker is now persona non-grata cause he dared fight for legalized weed. These nimrods with their high browed principles looking down on everyone with their noses turned up are going to destroy this country.

 

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

IMO, that is a big reason for this drawn-out wait. They don't want to, and cannot, fail. They want to do this once, and have it done right, and have it done without any questioning.

I believe the phrase from The Wire is " If you come at the King, you best not miss."

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

We should remind ourselves that if dump gets anything against him to end the Presidency of his, it won't be in a court. It will start in the house, and move to the senate. There is no court.

See my tagline: I'm anti-Semantic.

We are on the same page.