POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

every time you put forward your lunatic conspiracy theory that evil genius Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a woman who'd screw up a one car funeral, somehow cheated Bernie out of the nomination

The person who brings this up is you not me. As for whether DWS and the Clintonistas within the DNC put their thumb on the scale for Hillary I think even you will admit that truism.

But it's irrelevant whether that was dispositive. Once we had a nominee we had a nominee, and I fully supported her. The various brickbats that you monotonously deploy are sometimes false but overwhelmingly they're just not relevant.

Anyway, for the hundredth time, Bernie and Hillary are OBE. Neither matters, looking forward. I do not think you and I will have much of a disagreement going forward on candidates. The left is slowly coalescing with centripetal influences even as the right is ripping itself apart with frantic centrifugal forces.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Somewhere, Kellyanne Conway and Steve Bannon are smiling. You are just the kind of lefty they love.

I hate to say it Kepler but Rover is right. Hell I will take it one step further, they love the Left because the Left has zero loyalty at all. We mock the fact that Ted Cruz got in line with Trump after Trump said his dad killed Kennedy...we rip McCain for hugging Dubya, the man whose cronies stole the South Carolina Primary by saying the daughter he adopted was his love child from a an affair with a Black Lady...we decry their brand loyalty but you know what THAT is why they win. The Left is so up their own *** with their principles and their "My Agenda is Right So IT HAS TO BE MY WAY OR THE HIGH WAY!!!" that they dont forgive and forget. The Progressives hate the Centrists, the Socialists hate the Blue Dogs and so on and so on. It is no coincidence that the election was close despite Trump putting up Romney numbers...the Left screwed themselves because the Left is (ironically) selfish when it comes to Party Politics. The Bernie/NeverHillary's didnt care enough about the people they wanted to protect to actually protect them...but hey they got to wear cool protest outfits!!

Me and you, yeah we held our nose and voted for the candidate we didnt like but we were rare. Most kept ripping Hillary even after it was clear she was going to be the nominee. They devalued their own nominee. The Left doesnt know how to play the game. The Left has zero leadership, zero loyalty and zero sack.

 

[BassAle]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

As for whether DWS and the Clintonistas within the DNC put their thumb on the scale for Hillary I think even you will admit that truism.

Bernie only joined the party temporarily -- is it any shock the DNC would favor the actual Democrat?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Bernie only joined the party temporarily -- is it any shock the DNC would favor the actual Democrat?

It's no shock at all. I was never aghast at it. And politics is not a nice game, people play mean and have very sharp elbows, and given what we have to face in the general that's good.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Once we had a nominee we had a nominee, and I fully supported her.

Yeah. If that's your definition of support I'd hate to be your enemy.

Your test, and everyone else's is going to come in 2020. 2018 will be easy in that you're just voting to bring Chump to heel with that added bonus of seeing the look on Paul Ryan's face if he loses the House. 2020 will be the same dynamic in the primary as 2016 - you'll have a liberal in any other era running against a True Believer although I'm not sure who will fill each role. For God's sake I hope we can put aside conspiracy theories and sexist nicknames if the person we backed in the primary doesn't get the nomination since any Dem is going to represent about 90% of what we want, even if they aren't FDR/JFK/Obama type inspirational speakers.

EDIT: Go Handy!

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I was referring more to the state government. With that being said, I don't think you have to go to one extreme or the other. It's not good to be completely bare bones either. In time I think you could be quite happy with some of your town's decisions.

Which ones, and in what way?

Gutting the school system will drive new people away, since the #1 issue for anyone is location relative to school systems. So by making it bad, that puts in place a gradual decline of people, as new people will not want to live there.

Add to that, a protection system that may struggle to support the general public? Again, why would anyone want to move there?

Lower property taxes are not that important. If they were, the popular cities that have high property taxes would not be popular.

What do you think the future for mass holds? The economy is obviously decent, but it's hard for younger people to buy houses and I wonder what happens to the state and town's budgets as baby boomers retire. I worry about us going to same way as Connecticut at some point.

The question really is- why is it hard for young people to buy homes? Is it because they don't want to live in the 1000ft^2 starter homes that their parents started with? Or that they desire to live near where they work? Or that their wages are low?

If a community has suppressed home costs, don't you think people would hesitate to move their because of resale value?

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

And wouldn't a candidate who inspires people to get out and vote help to get more people involved?

Yeah they did that and the other side spent 8 years telling us he was a Communist, a Socialist, not a citizen, Anti-White, a Muslim and a Radical Black Christian who would take away our guns and enslave the White Man. Oh and they also said we worshiped him like a God because he inspired us to vote.

Want to try again?

See that is the hypocrisy of that opinion...if people vote because they are inspired then it is a fluke and it means nothing. (surely doesnt mean his values and beliefs count...why should we eat healthy and protect women, gays and the environment amirite?!?!) If people dont vote then it is up to the party to find someone to inspire them to vote. Sounds like a third party voter (of which I am one some of the time) trying to rationalize why he/she voted for a clown like Potzker Boy or the Anti-Vaxxer Lady.

 

[burd]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The point stands though that it wasn't like her only issue was her being uninspiring.

This again. They may both be on the x axis along with the truth, but to say they are anywhere close to each other or that the truth is anywhere close to the middle is just self deception

 

[ericredaxe]

And I say again, to you and everyone else, why then didn't you concerned citizens vote Dem in 2010, 2014, or downballot in 2016? t.

As a matter of fact I did. My district threw out corrupt congressmen and John Tiernrey and give you Seth Moulton. Feel free to send me a note of thanks as his star rises.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

That cranky old ($%*$% who has never sponsored a bill of any consequence, was not a better choice than a former Secretary of State.

Yeah...I was a Bernie supporter from Day 1 but he was not a better candidate. Clinton had the experience and the know how, and she actually had plans for things now wide eyed dreams and conjecture.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I agree with your assessment of Hillary. However, "this person won't screw it up too much" isn't exactly an inspiring message to motivate people and to get people out to vote.

Which brings it back to blame the Democratic Party for not presenting a better candidate.

The Democratic Party offered up an extremely competent candidate for the job. That she wasn't the most inspiring or charismatic is a problem, but is that how you're making your selection? than that says more about you than the candidate.

Certainly a more inspiring and charismatic candidate can create more interest, or buzz. But we can';t always have everything we want. Was Bush I particularly inspiring? Bush II even?

Hillary got tanked more by 25+ years of Republican noise machine demonizing her in the eyes of the public for nothing, than any faults or actions of her own. Case in point, that Republicans, and people on this board can take her to task for her use of the word 'deplorable', taken out of context(read the whole thing sometime) that makes her an unviable candidate, but nothing Trumpy said about Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, the disabled, or women mattered a lick to them says everything you need to know about the Republican electorate.

 

[Drew S.]

Which ones, and in what way?

Gutting the school system will drive new people away, since the #1 issue for anyone is location relative to school systems. So by making it bad, that puts in place a gradual decline of people, as new people will not want to live there.

Add to that, a protection system that may struggle to support the general public? Again, why would anyone want to move there?

Lower property taxes are not that important. If they were, the popular cities that have high property taxes would not be popular.



The question really is- why is it hard for young people to buy homes? Is it because they don't want to live in the 1000ft^2 starter homes that their parents started with? Or that they desire to live near where they work? Or that their wages are low?

If a community has suppressed home costs, don't you think people would hesitate to move their because of resale value?

It's just that houses are really expensive. Even a 1000 sq ft starter home goes for $400K plus even in average towns. The underlying problem is zoning issues and the fact that in the last 30 years or so there haven't been many houses built under 3000 sq ft. You have a large pool of people competing for the ever shrinking pool of smaller, 'affordable' houses.

 

[ericredaxe]

Yeah they did that and the other side spent 8 years telling us he was a Communist, a Socialist, not a citizen, Anti-White, a Muslim and a Radical Black Christian who would take away our guns and enslave the Black Man. Oh and they also said we worshiped him like a God because he inspired us to vote.

Want to try again?

See that is the hypocrisy of that opinion...if people vote because they are inspired then it is a fluke and it means nothing. (surely doesnt mean his values and beliefs count...why should we eat healthy and protect women, gays and the environment amirite?!?!) If people dont vote then it is up to the party to find someone to inspire them to vote. Sounds like a third party voter (of which I am one some of the time) trying to rationalize why he/she voted for a clown like Potzker Boy or the Anti-Vaxxer Lady.

And he won in a landslide both times and I bet he would have won again had he been able to run.

You are proving my point.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

There is a big difference between uninspiring and untrustworthy, dishonest, and unlikable. To say Hillary was somewhere along the lines of a Kasich type candidate is completely false.

And there's the right-wing noise machine we all love, right on cue.

 

[ericredaxe]

The Democratic Party offered up an extremely competent candidate for the job. That she wasn't the most inspiring or charismatic is a problem, but is that how you're making your selection? than that says more about you than the candidate.

Certainly a more inspiring and charismatic candidate can create more interest, or buzz. But we can';t always have everything we want. Was Bush I particularly inspiring? Bush II even?

Hillary got tanked more by 25+ years of Republican noise machine demonizing her in the eyes of the public for nothing, than any faults or actions of her own. Case in point, that Republicans, and people on this board can take her to task for her use of the word 'deplorable', taken out of context(read the whole thing sometime) that makes her an unviable candidate, but nothing Trumpy said about Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, the disabled, or women mattered a lick to them says everything you need to know about the Republican electorate.

You are missing the point. I held my nose and voted for her, but the results confirm my opinion that she was a poor choice for a candidate.

You have two choices, you can travel across the country trying to convince people how they should go about making their decisions when it comes time to vote, or you can pick better candidates.... which is an easier path to victory?

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

But Kep, Hillary ran on all these things! She ran on moving towards single payer (states could set up themselves under ACA). She ran on free college tuition for people under a certain income level. All of these platforms she adopted. Would she have done this things as radically as Sanders? Probably not but if it gets their eventually what's the problem? I didn't start making big bucks straight out of college, but now that I'm relatively well off I don't sit around complaining that it took all through my 20's to get there.

And the only reason she ran on those things was cause Bernie was her opponent, and pulled her leftward. If she was running against Evan Bayh or Joe Lieberman, you wouldn't have heard a peep about that stuff. .

 

[mookie1995]

That cranky old ($%*$% who has never sponsored a bill of any consequence, was not a better choice than a former Secretary of State.

Fail to see where being SoS means one should be pres.

 

[mookie1995]

And he won in a landslide both times and I bet he would have won again had he been able to run.

You are proving my point.

Mookie voted for BHO over hilly and would do it again. WHould vote for BHO over tD.

Mookie would have voted for Michelle Obama over tD

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I'm on the fence about not voting. There are groups of people who had to fight for the right to vote (women, minorities). So I feel like any non-voter in that population is failing those before them.

Those of us with privilege (white male) will see it as our freedom not to vote is protected by our past (died for our rights/freedom).

In the end that privilege clouds our decisions. Some deny they have privilege even.

Interesting point and I think probably true for some. I grew up in a family that was patriotic to the point of it being almost religion. My Auntie cries every time she hears the national anthem (she is 83 yrs old). It is a privilege to be a citizen and part of 'payment for that is taking seriously the responsibility to excercise my right to vote regardles of what the election is for.

I was referring more to the state government. With that being said, I don't think you have to go to one extreme or the other. It's not good to be completely bare bones either. In time I think you could be quite happy with some of your town's decisions.

What do you think the future for mass holds? The economy is obviously decent, but it's hard for younger people to buy houses and I wonder what happens to the state and town's budgets as baby boomers retire. I worry about us going to same way as Connecticut at some point.

see below. As far as harder to buy houses etc- I think we have a ridiculouse sense of entitlement that everyone should be able to (or should have the want to) buy a house. The issue for some of this is not affordability for the young so much as builders only building things that are huge, out of the normal starter house price. We have fields of McMansions popping up and a lot of very expensive homes- some of which aren't selling d/t the state of the town. For those who who can send their kids to private school and haven't looked at our crime rate this is a great place. They use it as a cheaper option while they pretend to be rich enough to afford the same house somewhere else.

Which ones, and in what way?

Gutting the school system will drive new people away, since the #1 issue for anyone is location relative to school systems. So by making it bad, that puts in place a gradual decline of people, as new people will not want to live there.

Add to that, a protection system that may struggle to support the general public? Again, why would anyone want to move there?

Lower property taxes are not that important. If they were, the popular cities that have high property taxes would not be popular.


The question really is- why is it hard for young people to buy homes? Is it because they don't want to live in the 1000ft^2 starter homes that their parents started with? Or that they desire to live near where they work? Or that their wages are low?

If a community has suppressed home costs, don't you think people would hesitate to move their because of resale value?

So much of this. We have the old guard who continue to structure things in a way they benefit and screw the rest. We have the new disengaged 'rich' and a fairly sizeable population who are actively trying to figure out a way to get the hell out because we are morally bankrupt and provide nothing a town should. I walk about a couple of miles a few times a week. The same houses have been for sale for months. We have been here almost 25 yrs and There has been no positive motion. I can't forsee any reason to think it will work out. The people in charge are older, don't want to pay in, and have no ability to look past whether it will effect them getting lunch in an hour.

I agree with your assessment of Hillary. However, "this person won't screw it up too much" isn't exactly an inspiring message to motivate people and to get people out to vote.

Which brings it back to blame the Democratic Party for not presenting a better candidate.

And wouldn't a candidate who inspires people to get out and vote help to get more people involved?

You are missing the point, I don't like that people need to be motivated to get out and vote. I don't have an explanation as to why people need to be motivated to get out and vote. That does appear to be how it is though. So, we need to pick our candidates accordingly.

NO. If people were responsible citizens they would vote. Dumbing things down results in the candidates like tRump, Palin and others who are clearly not qualified but do just what you want- appeal to the people who do vote- stupid and ignorant as they are. What should be happening is educating people to understand it is your civic duty and responsibility to vote. It is also your duty to look at what happens when you don't. We don't see that alot anywhere.

Yeah ideally Americans would do a lot of things like exercise regularly so that 2/3 of the country isn't obese. At the same time to win elections you need to work within the parameters of reality, ie Americans are lazy. And when you have a ton of voting restrictions in key states they might not be willing to take of work to go to the DMV or whatever just so they can vote for someone who is the epitome of everything that's wrong with the democratic party. Especially when Trump had no chance anyhow (doh!).

Some people cannot take out of work. It is not financially possible when you are living paycheck to paycheck or don't have the transportation to get to some of the places required. I have no prob with needing an ID as long as it is very easy to access and is free- something that alot of these rules do not fit.

don't even joke about eating her!!! PUHleeeze!!!

bwahahaha! I love you mookie!

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You are missing the point. I held my nose and voted for her, but the results confirm my opinion that she was a poor choice for a candidate.

You have two choices, you can travel across the country trying to convince people how they should go about making their decisions when it comes time to vote, or you can pick better candidates.... which is an easier path to victory?

And your better candidates will still get hammered by the right wing noise machine, about nothing. Everything they do will be the greatest disaster, or biggest scandal of all time. They will be the most partisan, corrupt, or unqualified candidate to ever run for office. And people like Brent, and Drew, and perhaps even you,, will buy into it unconditionally.

Exhibit one, Elizabeth Warren.