Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

[norm1909]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

...Like NUProf joked about with the drama scholarships, the NCAA will look at all financial aid programs if they feel there is an unusual number of ahletes getting them. It just so happens these specific investigations are only looking at the international programs. That doesn't let the domestic aid packages off the hook.

I am 100% certain that in the late 1980's and again in the late 1990's, the NCAA investigated the EOP Program and Basketball recruits, a plan to reach compliance was required of several schools. This did have an impact on recruiting and I do not know the exact details of what went on . The big thing was that the qualifying criteria is both Financial AND Academic need and meant that these students would likely NOT meet the schools standard admission criteria. EOP students are admitted and must maintain a different set of standards - which begin substantially lower than the general standards. EOP is a domestic program; some students are US citizens of parents who are not.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Statement from SUNY Potsdam on NCAA Announcement

The statement:

The following is a letter to campus from SUNY Potsdam President John F. Schwaller:

“SUNY Potsdam, a Division III school, has been informed by the NCAA that it inadvertently violated an association bylaw. The College is working closely with NCAA officials to bring the institution into compliance.

“The violation relates to SUNY Potsdam’s International Initiative Grant, which is given to all international students through a blind review process. The program has been found to inadvertently benefit a slightly higher proportion of student-athletes compared to the number of international students in the entire student population. SUNY Potsdam’s international community consists of primarily Canadian students due to the close proximity to the Quebec/Ontario border, and serves a large number of undergraduate and graduate students from these provinces, many of whom are interested in participating in the College’s athletics program.

“As our International Initiative Grant is currently structured, it does not favor any student over another, and in its findings the NCAA points out that this violation was unintentional, and the institution, the athletes and our employees were found not to have purposely sought to advantage College athletics through the program.

“As part of its mission, SUNY Potsdam will continue to support all international students who wish to pursue their undergraduate and graduate degrees at Potsdam, and is committed to finding a solution that satisfies the NCAA while protecting the rich educational and experiential opportunities available to all students at SUNY Potsdam.”

 

[westscout]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

NO rules are ever broken. Just ask SNC

Westscout

 

[NUProf]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

NO rules are ever broken. Just ask SNC

Westscout

If you have substantive evidence, I'm sure the NCAA would like to hear about it. Otherwise...

 

[Hammer]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Yeah, if you're going to engage in bomb-throwing of this magnitude, you'd better bring something to the table.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

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This is a management issue that lies at the feet of the college administration.....if the aid package says "international", then make sure your admissions team and the Office of Financial Aid has international plane tickets budgeted rather than Tom-Toms loaded with maps of the Great White North.

If the college wants cultural and ethnic diversity as part of it's mission to better educate and prepare all its students for what lies ahead, then the broader the reach, the less likely fluctuations in acceptance and attendance will trip the red light.

Having said that, given all the financial and social challenges facing SUNY institutions these days, it is naive to think someone is intentionally cooking the aid books to build a better hockey, basketball or lacrosse team (or pep band ).

 

[joecct]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

From CHN's article on Union's (D-III playup) moving to Providence

Eight years later, there's a new president, financial aid resources are devoted to "foreign" students, helping to attract Canadian players, and the team just won a school-record 26 games, first ECAC championship and first NCAA Touranment bid.

Even though Union is a D-III playup to D-I, is this a problem???

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

From CHN's article on Union's (D-III playup) moving to Providence

Even though Union is a D-III playup to D-I, is this a problem???

Union is one of the schools grandfathered in. They can offer athletic scholarships if they wish. They choose not to. It's a self imposed restriction. Not an NCAA or league restriction.

RIT on the other hand I believe has to abide by D-III rules even though they play D-I because they made the move to play up after the new legislation about one-sport play-ups.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Union is one of the schools grandfathered in. They can offer athletic scholarships if they wish. They choose not to. It's a self imposed restriction. Not an NCAA or league restriction.

RIT on the other hand I believe has to abide by D-III rules even though they play D-I because they made the move to play up after the new legislation about one-sport play-ups.

I think that because they chose to abide by DIII rules at the time they moved up, they would still have to abide. The grandfather clause only applied to the schools that were offering scholarships at the time the new rules went into effect. They weren't, so they are in the same boat as RIT.

 

[westscout]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

If you don't get caught and your school chooses to give large aid, you are not cheating.

Westscout

 

[norm1909]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

If you don't get caught and your school chooses to give large aid, you are not cheating.

Westscout

But you imply that you have "caught them", who, what, when - where is your evidence or are you just a disgruntled, "individual”? Certainly if there is any significant basis for your claims, you would make it public.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

1. These schools on the border will generally have more enrolled Canadian students compared to other schools.

...

First let me say there is NO love lost between me and the NCAA, they are for all intents and purposes a money machine exploiting Division I athletes, primarily basketball and football, but are glad to maximize "their" investment anytime and anywhere they can, IMO they make pro-sport agents look like philanthropists.

That said, as Russell noted: "if the school is near the border, than they should also have a larger percentage of non-athlete Canadians attending." in other words, their proximity to the border and the advantages that comes with it - i.e. lower transportation costs, ease of family and friends to attend games, familiarity and similar geographic/climatic area, etc, should help encourage as many non-athletes as it does athletes - in theory. I see two problems with the "theory", the biggest is that ALL schools near the border are on equal competitive footing for non-athletes, however, ONLY those schools offering ice hockey are attractive to ice hockey players. Therefore, I would anticipate a disproportionate number of potential ice hockey players to choose schools offering ice hockey with those schools loosing students who could care less about ice hockey to schools who better meet their academic desires. Second, this "natural" tilt to the potential student pool is further influenced by active recruiting by coaches - BUT, even if the schools were to stop THEIR coaches from recruiting into Canada the schools reputation, including that of its historical performance and the current coach staff creates "de-facto recruiting" - i.e. the high school and prep school coaches steer their players to certain schools off-setting the "all conditions equal" that the NCAA claims to value so much. IMO, these "uncontrollable" forces could realistically force a school into denying admission and/or a financial award program solely because the student is an athlete and they need to maintain their ratio - is this fair and showing good sportsmanship? Of course not, the NCAA should, IMO, face reality, if the ratios are off "unintentionally", then such are the forces of nature - no harm/no foul.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

If you don't get caught and your school chooses to give large aid, you are not cheating.

Westscout

So, if you cheat on your wife but she never catches you, you never actually cheated on your wife?

Your ethical values leave me perplexed.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

So, if you cheat on your wife but she never catches you, you never actually cheated on your wife?

Your ethical values leave me perplexed.

I think he's using sarcasm here. Just a guess. He claims to know who's cheating...

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT POTSDAM PUBLIC INFRACTIONS REPORT

Excerpt:This case involved violation of NCAA Division III financial aid bylaws. Over two
academic years, 2008-09 and 2009-10, the institution administered financial aid to
international student-athletes in a manner not sufficiently equivalent to the percentage of
student-athletes within the student body. The financial aid, which was distributed to
Canadian student-athletes in the sports of men's and women's ice hockey, men's and
women's lacrosse, women's soccer and women's volleyball, was awarded in the form of
International Initiative Grants that were designed to increase the presence of international
students enrolled at the institution. However, in 2008-09, approximately 24 percent of
the grants were awarded to student-athletes while student-athletes comprised only
approximately 11 percent of the general student body. In 2009-10, almost 17 percent of
the grants went to student-athletes, even though they made up only approximately eight
percent of the student body. Because the percentages were not closely equivalent, as
required by NCAA Bylaw 15.4.1-(d), violations occurred. The committee noted that the
violations were unintentional.

I was going to post something about an over/under on the date when the NCAA moved from reporting "unintentional violations" (which all have been so far) to reporting "intentional violations," when I noticed the fact that in one year the percentage of student-athletes at Potsdam had dropped from 11 percent to 8 percent. Any ideas on the nature of this percentage decrease? Are there more non-athlete student there or less athletes there?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

I was going to post something about an over/under on the date when the NCAA moved from reporting "unintentional violations" (which all have been so far) to reporting "intentional violations," when I noticed the fact that in one year the percentage of student-athletes at Potsdam had dropped from 11 percent to 8 percent. Any ideas on the nature of this percentage decrease? Are there more non-athlete student there or less athletes there?

Someone closer to Potsdam can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the change is the year they opened the new townhouse dorms. Thus, the overall student population would have jumped that year while obviously the number of athletes would have remained the same.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Someone closer to Potsdam can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the change is the year they opened the new townhouse dorms. Thus, the overall student population would have jumped that year while obviously the number of athletes would have remained the same.

ow boy, i know oswego just opened the same type dorms.......

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

ow boy, i know oswego just opened the same type dorms.......

So did Brockport.

 

[joecct]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

I was going to post something about an over/under on the date when the NCAA moved from reporting "unintentional violations" (which all have been so far) to reporting "intentional violations," when I noticed the fact that in one year the percentage of student-athletes at Potsdam had dropped from 11 percent to 8 percent. Any ideas on the nature of this percentage decrease? Are there more non-athlete student there or less athletes there?

See post #58 in this thread.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Someone closer to Potsdam can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the change is the year they opened the new townhouse dorms. Thus, the overall student population would have jumped that year while obviously the number of athletes would have remained the same.

ow boy, i know oswego just opened the same type dorms.......

Oswego actually had groups go out to Potsdam and Brockport to conduct studies and provide input for the planning of its townhouses.