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Philosophy 1: Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as sloshed as Schlegel

Why I am attracted to philosophy

My wife asked me a few nights ago as we were dropping off to sleep, and I came up with a few thoughts. But it's not just that philosophy is difficult or important, it's profound and fills me up, like nature or poetry does for others.

Here's an example:

> Aristotle held that to know is to become one with the thing known, and that therefore different kinds of thing lead to different kinds of knowledge.

Just that simple thought opens a new world for me, inspiring, and deep, and fascinating. It implies subjects and objects blur together, and the world isn't something we take into our hands and shape but that as we enter it, it enters us. But it's not at all gauzy -- it's a quite precise thought. It has integrity and definition. And it's a way of thinking that is almost entirely alien to modernity.

That makes me excited.

The first time I really felt like that was when I started reading Kant and realized I could not understand him but, insofar as I did little by little, he was bringing something true into focus not that I didn't realize before but that I didn't even suspect, and that didn't simply follow from what I always understood. It was another planet you couldn't just drive to from the one I had always been on.

Philosophy is a form of space travel. It gets us from one planet to another. We can use all our other scientific and rationalistic and theological tools to explore a given planet, thoroughly. But none of them get you off your planet. Philosophy is the way you escape your own gravity.
 
So, inspired by all this, I am rereading Being and Nothingness. And Sartre hits you with this little gem right in the Preface, p. lxii:

Certainly we could apply to consciousness the definition which Heidegger reserves for Dasein and say that it is a being such that in its being, its being is in question. But it would be necessary to complete the definition and formulate it more like this: consciousness is a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself.
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F-ck you, you nasty little frog.
 
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Kep, started "Existentialism Is A Humanism" today. And when I'm reading lines like "no reality except in action" and "no love except for the deeds of love, no love except for which is manifested in loving," I get it.
 
MissThundercat said:
Kep, started "Existentialism Is A Humanism" today. And when I'm reading lines like "no reality except in action" and "no love except for the deeds of love, no love except for which is manifested in loving," I get it.
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It's a really wonderful essay. There is a YouTube out there of an interesting actor doing a reading of it, but I cannot find it. It's brilliant. The writing is good enough to be 19th century, before the rot set in.
 
Not sure which thread this post belongs in, perhaps any of them. Reading Proust was a Neuroscientist, by Jonah Lehrer (2008), which examines the relationship between our brain and our daily physical and emotional experiences, drawing on works of scientists and artists like Walt Whitman, George Eliot, and C'ezanne. A paragraph:

This is the triumph of our DNA: it makes us without determining us. The invention of neural plasticity, which is encoded by the genome, lets each of us transcend our genome. We emerge, characterlike, from the vague alphabet of our text. Of course, to accept the freedom inherent in the human brain--to know that the individual is not genetically predestined--is also to accept the fact that we have no single solutions. Every day each of us is given the gift of new neurons and plastic cortical cells; only we can decide what our brains will become.

So, you see, there's hope for Rs. :)
 
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Kepler said:
It's a really wonderful essay. There is a YouTube out there of an interesting actor doing a reading of it, but I cannot find it. It's brilliant. The writing is good enough to be 19th century, before the rot set in.
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Finished this today and after I get my car fixed, I'll probably pick up Nausea.
 
Moral dilemma of the day:

Every morning, I drop my kids off at school, then pop around the corner to a convenience store to get my coffees (don't judge) and a food item (okay - it's a hot dog. I already asked you not to judge.). I get one coffee in a paper cup so that it will cool quickly and I can drink it right away. The other, I get in my thermos so it stays hot for 6-8 hours and I can sip throughout the day. When I get to the cash register, I faithfully tell the associate that I have the hot dog, the coffee, and the coffee refill. More than half of the associates decline to charge me for the refill, the coffee, or sometimes both. The first couple of times, I assumed that they made an innocent mistake and reminded them to charge me, and they all said, "no, that's okay, you're good."

So what is my moral obligation here? These employees are deliberately ripping off their employer, and I'm benefiting from it. However, they're minimum wage cashiers, and I definitely don't want to get them in trouble. If I made a big fuss and insisted that they charge me, I'm sure that would eventually get the attention of a manager on duty, which would be the same thing as telling on them. I certainly am not fearful that the Japanese parent company of this particular chain will have bad quarterly results as a result of this malfeasance, and yet, it truly is their money. What to do, what to do?

Aside from any moral questions, I also wonder if by knowlingly walking out of the store with an item I have not paid for, am I legally shoplifting?
 
LynahFan said:
Moral dilemma of the day:

Every morning, I drop my kids off at school, then pop around the corner to a convenience store to get my coffees (don't judge) and a food item (okay - it's a hot dog. I already asked you not to judge.). I get one coffee in a paper cup so that it will cool quickly and I can drink it right away. The other, I get in my thermos so it stays hot for 6-8 hours and I can sip throughout the day. When I get to the cash register, I faithfully tell the associate that I have the hot dog, the coffee, and the coffee refill. More than half of the associates decline to charge me for the refill, the coffee, or sometimes both. The first couple of times, I assumed that they made an innocent mistake and reminded them to charge me, and they all said, "no, that's okay, you're good."

So what is my moral obligation here? These employees are deliberately ripping off their employer, and I'm benefiting from it. However, they're minimum wage cashiers, and I definitely don't want to get them in trouble. If I made a big fuss and insisted that they charge me, I'm sure that would eventually get the attention of a manager on duty, which would be the same thing as telling on them. I certainly am not fearful that the Japanese parent company of this particular chain will have bad quarterly results as a result of this malfeasance, and yet, it truly is their money. What to do, what to do?

Aside from any moral questions, I also wonder if by knowlingly walking out of the store with an item I have not paid for, am I legally shoplifting?
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My wife had a similar dilemma. Her car's transmission dropped and the repair was going to be >50% of it's worth. She went out to buy a new vehicle (as you have said, don't judge). They priced the new vehicle with an employee discount but no family member works for the company. The salesperson had her call a friend who was retired from the car company and use one of his discounts. She kept asking the salesperson if it was legal and they kept saying it's not an issue. $3K savings made it easier to ignore the dilemma.

The fact that >50% of the associates are doing this makes me question if this is an acceptable practice of the store. A "loss leader". Give you a coffee and you come back. Keep doing it and sooner or later you buy a gallon of milk, etc. For me, the moral dilemma flies right out the window when I point out the inaccurate charge and they say "It's OK". If your conscience is still bothered by it, tip the associate the difference.
 
LynahFan said:
Moral dilemma of the day:

Every morning, I drop my kids off at school, then pop around the corner to a convenience store to get my coffees (don't judge) and a food item (okay - it's a hot dog. I already asked you not to judge.). I get one coffee in a paper cup so that it will cool quickly and I can drink it right away. The other, I get in my thermos so it stays hot for 6-8 hours and I can sip throughout the day. When I get to the cash register, I faithfully tell the associate that I have the hot dog, the coffee, and the coffee refill. More than half of the associates decline to charge me for the refill, the coffee, or sometimes both. The first couple of times, I assumed that they made an innocent mistake and reminded them to charge me, and they all said, "no, that's okay, you're good."

So what is my moral obligation here? These employees are deliberately ripping off their employer, and I'm benefiting from it. However, they're minimum wage cashiers, and I definitely don't want to get them in trouble. If I made a big fuss and insisted that they charge me, I'm sure that would eventually get the attention of a manager on duty, which would be the same thing as telling on them. I certainly am not fearful that the Japanese parent company of this particular chain will have bad quarterly results as a result of this malfeasance, and yet, it truly is their money. What to do, what to do?

Aside from any moral questions, I also wonder if by knowlingly walking out of the store with an item I have not paid for, am I legally shoplifting?
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No.
 
If it was a mom and pop, they might be morally obligated to their employer.

If it's a chain, you and they should steal everything not nailed down. We have no moral obligation to sociopaths.

But, in either case, the employees have agency. You have no moral obligation in this scenario. Take what is given. The employees may be acting according to company policy to build customer goodwill. Or they may be screwing over awful management and ownership. Accept their decision. Take the coffee and thank them. If it bothers you, tip the employees the price of the coffee and let them pocket it.

We find ourselves trapped by coercion in a despicable, exploitative economic system. We have no obligation to support it or obey its rules or enrich the parasites who benefit from it. Our only consideration is the pure calculation of risk in illegal situations. Hostages have no obligation to their captors.
 
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Kepler said:
If it was a mom and pop, they might be morally obligated to their employer.

If it's a chain, you and they should steal everything not nailed down. We have no moral obligation to sociopaths.

But, in either case, the employees have agency. You have no moral obligation in this scenario. Take what is given. The employees may be acting according to company policy to build customer goodwill. Or they may be screwing over awful management and ownership. Accept their decision. Take the coffee and thank them. If it bothers you, tip the employees the price of the coffee and let them pocket it.

We find ourselves trapped by coercion in a despicable, exploitative economic system. We have no obligation to support it or obey its rules or enrich the parasites who benefit from it. Our only consideration is the pure calculation of risk in illegal situations. Hostages have no obligation to their captors.
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This is the Junior Woodchuck Guidebook of corporate morality. We should all be taught this in third grade instead of Junior Achievement (is that still a thing?)
 
LynahFan said:
Moral dilemma of the day:

Every morning, I drop my kids off at school, then pop around the corner to a convenience store to get my coffees (don't judge) and a food item (okay - it's a hot dog. I already asked you not to judge.). I get one coffee in a paper cup so that it will cool quickly and I can drink it right away. The other, I get in my thermos so it stays hot for 6-8 hours and I can sip throughout the day. When I get to the cash register, I faithfully tell the associate that I have the hot dog, the coffee, and the coffee refill. More than half of the associates decline to charge me for the refill, the coffee, or sometimes both. The first couple of times, I assumed that they made an innocent mistake and reminded them to charge me, and they all said, "no, that's okay, you're good."

So what is my moral obligation here? These employees are deliberately ripping off their employer, and I'm benefiting from it. However, they're minimum wage cashiers, and I definitely don't want to get them in trouble. If I made a big fuss and insisted that they charge me, I'm sure that would eventually get the attention of a manager on duty, which would be the same thing as telling on them. I certainly am not fearful that the Japanese parent company of this particular chain will have bad quarterly results as a result of this malfeasance, and yet, it truly is their money. What to do, what to do?

Aside from any moral questions, I also wonder if by knowlingly walking out of the store with an item I have not paid for, am I legally shoplifting?
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Coffee is like fountain pop, it costs almost nothing. The amount of coffee that gets thrown out every day is pretty crazy and if it had any real value would likely stop places from even keeping it but you can make a lot of coffee with very little grounds so places often will let loyal customers have free refills because if it just sits there it has no value anyways.

I highly doubt it is noticeable to the owner (whether mom and pop or corporate) so there is no reason to report anything or worry it is hurting the bottom line. I doubt coffee is much of a line item.

Its like bars...if they have keg beer the keg is paid for after about a 1/3 is sold (give or take depending on the product) and bottles of booze are roughly half.** This stuff is built into the cost.

And no you aren't shoplifting.



**it has been a long time since I had to do liquor cost but that was the low end at a place with a big time happy hour special so likely not much has changed. My father has worked at convenience stores for years so the coffee thing I am pretty certain on.
 
I mean, you very explicitly told them what you have, it's not like you made any attempt to hide anything. At that point the ball is in their court. As others said, they're probably more than willing to let one of the coffees go because a) it costs next to nothing and b) it ensures you'll keep coming back for more coffee and salmonella dogs. If the loss of that extra coffee was killing them, someone would notice and do something about it; as is, they probably lose more coffee based on what they throw out at the end of the day, so might as well build up some customer goodwill while they're at it.
 
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