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Penn State Womens Hockey

Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

One thing that no one has mentioned so far is if it is possible that the head coach might be part of a package deal when the Pegula's stepped up to underwrite the cost to start the men's and women's hockey program including the cost of building the arena, maybe this coach was someone they knew and recommended. If this were indeed the case, I think it could be difficult for the AD or school to make a coaching change.

I have a daughter that plays college hockey and I feel like I'm constantly reminded that if it were not for title IX, about 80% (maybe more) of the women's programs would not exist. Is it a priority for most women's programs to be successful? - NO

Is it necessary for most schools with a men's hockey program to field a women's program to offset the men's scholarships? - YES

I have to say his resume Pre-Penn State is very under underwhelming. I would say there must be a tie somewhere to the Pegulas.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

I have to say his resume Pre-Penn State is very under underwhelming. I would say there must be a tie somewhere to the Pegulas.

Joe Battista - the former Associate AD at Penn State hired Brandwene - Battista now works for Pegula - Battista was Brandwene's hockey coach when Brandwene played club hockey at PSU.
 
Re: BU Women's Hockey

Re: BU Women's Hockey

I can tell you that Coach Durocher still tells the story to recruits, and you definitely get the feeling that he didn’t take it lightly. Having to cut those players was painful for that program (maybe those women who were cut would see it differently). Might be a necessary evil part of building a team but your also building a program and how a program treats its own can say a lot about the foundation its putting up. PSU is an awesome school and the new facilities are the best around so they will be on a lot of short lists no matter what. All the athletes scholarship or not need to be held to high standards, but also treated with respect. It will be good for women’s hockey to have strong programs at high profile schools like PSU. Hopefully Michigan and Michigan State follow at some point.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Now it makes sense.

yes, it does:

“Thirteen of us went into a meeting with Charmelle Green about wanting to see change or that this program won’t reach its full potential if we don’t have a new coach,”

not a good career move, hopefully these youngsters learned a lesson from this, mutiny, no matter how much it may seem like the right thing to do, it rarely ends happily .. unless you can actually pull it off, which is next to impossible

“I went to go talk to him and I basically told him I thought about transferring. I was very honest with him.”
another bad career move, honesty is not always the best policy, telling your boss you are thinking about quitting is a dumb move, even for someone who is valued, they never forget the fact that your loyalty to them has been questioned

“We had meetings throughout the year and he just made up complete bull**** reasons as to why I wasn’t playing and that I had to fix my attitude,”

you don't ask a coach why you aren't playing, you ask what you need to do to improve

it sounds to me like these young ladies are getting an education, learning from your mistakes is painful, though valuable (although it sounds to me like some of them possibly haven't learned anything)
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

yes, it does:

“Thirteen of us went into a meeting with Charmelle Green about wanting to see change or that this program won’t reach its full potential if we don’t have a new coach,”

not a good career move, hopefully these youngsters learned a lesson from this, mutiny, no matter how much it may seem like the right thing to do, it rarely ends happily .. unless you can actually pull it off, which is next to impossible

“I went to go talk to him and I basically told him I thought about transferring. I was very honest with him.”
another bad career move, honesty is not always the best policy, telling your boss you are thinking about quitting is a dumb move, even for someone who is valued, they never forget the fact that your loyalty to them has been questioned

“We had meetings throughout the year and he just made up complete bull**** reasons as to why I wasn’t playing and that I had to fix my attitude,”

you don't ask a coach why you aren't playing, you ask what you need to do to improve

it sounds to me like these young ladies are getting an education, learning from your mistakes is painful, though valuable (although it sounds to me like some of them possibly haven't learned anything)

Maybe. But was it really a mistake?

Their actions were obviously not going to lead to the short-term release of the coach as they wished.

But clearly they were at a point where the status quo was also untenable to them. Whether by their own volition (asking for a transfer or choosing to quit the team for their personal well-being if changes were not made), or having him cut them as a consequence, they were done anyway no matter what. They stood up for what they believed was in the best long-term interests of the program, and the athletes who will follow them.

AD's offices are reknowned for preferring to sweep unpleasantness under the rug wherever possible, as we know from just about any schools facing controversies. But once the matter reaches the media it's a different story. That move was truly brilliant. Now that the whole story has hit the media for broad public consumption, as well as the AD's office, it's the coach whose various actions and behaviours bring much greater scrutiny to bear on him, and which are far more likely to accelerate any questions on his future than would otherwise be the case if the players had remained silent and compliant.

There are many coaches out there whose less than admirable behaviours also merit similar questions. Unfortunately, in most cases, athletes elsewhere have tended to be far less courageous in bringing such information forward, with the consequence that athletes in those programs have had to continue to suffer from the effects of having poor leaders and role models for far too long.

Who made the most mistakes in this situation?
 
Thanks, great explanation.

Or you can offer a 1 for 4, 2 for 4, 3 for 4..the first year or years the player is on scholi and then you get it back to use however. It doesn't have to be full for four years or walk on. You can also use partial scholarships.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

One thing that no one has mentioned so far is if it is possible that the head coach might be part of a package deal when the Pegula's stepped up to underwrite the cost to start the men's and women's hockey program including the cost of building the arena, maybe this coach was someone they knew and recommended. If this were indeed the case, I think it could be difficult for the AD or school to make a coaching change.

I have a daughter that plays college hockey and I feel like I'm constantly reminded that if it were not for title IX, about 80% (maybe more) of the women's programs would not exist. Is it a priority for most women's programs to be successful? - NO

Is it necessary for most schools with a men's hockey program to field a women's program to offset the men's scholarships? - YES

As others have mentioned, Battista-Brandwene is the connection, as the two have remained close since the latter's playing career ended in the early 90s. If anything, given his less-than-Gadowskian resume at the NCAA DI level, it was a concession by Pegula to a guy he trusts in Battista. Going a step further with it, the original plan at PSU was to only start an NCAA men's team right away, then bring the women along a few years later. A threatened Title IX suit changed that in a hurry. Still, some aspects of the women's team have screamed "keep costs as low as possible so they can be completely offset by the men" throughout, with the hire of Brandwene - which was roundly received with a "who?!?" outside of PSU and ACHA hockey circles - part of that.

My personal opinion... I think there's enough smoke for some serious questions to be asked by administration. I don't know the full truth, but I do know many who have played for Brandwene, and their stories pretty much mirror Katie Murphy's point by point - I heard from several as soon as that story went up with something along the lines of "it's about time someone said it." It's unfortunate that the players in the news weren't heavy contributors on the team (having seen them play, I happen to think at least a couple of them got a bad deal in that department... Madison Smiddy, for example, was absolutely one of the six best Ds on the roster), because that then becomes the discussion. But at the same time, those with something to lose are less likely to come forward. It's not valid to assume that outside of the Murphy 13 and the two transfers, everyone else on the team is perfectly fine with Brandwene. It's also worth reiterating that there were six people deemed to be contributing enough to still be on the team in the meeting with the associate AD. Now a strength coach with his name on the Stanley Cup has come forward to reinforce the story and even vouch for the playing abilities of the cuts. Sure, he has an axe to grind as well, but what's the saturation point for saying "geez, this is all well beyond typical hurt feelings?"

I also think Brandwene did a terrible job managing the numbers through the transition, essentially bringing in two huge classes (the last ACHA year and the first NCAA year) and holding his own personal Hunger Games, but that's almost a different conversation. At best, he seems to be a terrible communicator who enjoys playing head games waaay too much and is in over his head at this level. Maybe it becomes a moot point in a couple years unless he starts winning... we take more pride in women's sports at PSU than most places, and winning 5ish games per year won't be acceptable for much longer.

Good discussion here, by the way - I came into reading this expecting to have to lay someone out, and was pleasantly surprised. Well done everyone. :)
 
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Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Good discussion here, by the way - I came into reading this expecting to have to lay someone out, and was pleasantly surprised. Well done everyone. :)

I was wondering if you were going to check in here. I've been reading this thread with a mix of bemusement and dismay. :(

As I said for years, going varsity was going to be a double-edged sword. As you wrote last summer, those words were prophetic. Now, it's getting crowded under the bus! :rolleyes:
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

As others have mentioned, Battista-Brandwene is the connection, as the two have remained close since the latter's playing career ended in the early 90s. If anything, given his less-than-Gadowskian resume at the NCAA DI level, it was a concession by Pegula to a guy he trusts in Battista. Going a step further with it, the original plan at PSU was to only start an NCAA men's team right away, then bring the women along a few years later. A threatened Title IX suit changed that in a hurry. Still, some aspects of the women's team have screamed "keep costs as low as possible so they can be completely offset by the men" throughout, with the hire of Brandwene - which was roundly received with a "who?!?" outside of PSU and ACHA hockey circles - part of that.

My personal opinion... I think there's enough smoke for some serious questions to be asked by administration. I don't know the full truth, but I do know many who have played for Brandwene, and their stories pretty much mirror Katie Murphy's point by point - I heard from several as soon as that story went up with something along the lines of "it's about time someone said it." It's unfortunate that the players in the news weren't heavy contributors on the team (having seen them play, I happen to think at least a couple of them got a bad deal in that department... Madison Smiddy, for example, was absolutely one of the six best Ds on the roster), because that then becomes the discussion. But at the same time, those with something to lose are less likely to come forward. It's not valid to assume that outside of the Murphy 13 and the two transfers, everyone else on the team is perfectly fine with Brandwene. It's also worth reiterating that there were six people deemed to be contributing enough to still be on the team in the meeting with the associate AD. Now a strength coach with his name on the Stanley Cup has come forward to reinforce the story and even vouch for the playing abilities of the cuts. Sure, he has an axe to grind as well, but what's the saturation point for saying "geez, this is all well beyond typical hurt feelings?"

I also think Brandwene did a terrible job managing the numbers through the transition, essentially bringing in two huge classes (the last ACHA year and the first NCAA year) and holding his own personal Hunger Games, but that's almost a different conversation. At best, he seems to be a terrible communicator who enjoys playing head games waaay too much and is in over his head at this level. Maybe it becomes a moot point in a couple years unless he starts winning... we take more pride in women's sports at PSU than most places, and winning 5ish games per year won't be acceptable for much longer.

Good discussion here, by the way - I came into reading this expecting to have to lay someone out, and was pleasantly surprised. Well done everyone. :)

Welcome to the forum Kyle. Great first post!
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Welcome to the forum Kyle. Great first post!

Technically not, I posted (infrequently) under another name, then couldn't remember which email I used when trying to retrieve my password, and just signed up for a new account instead haha. But thanks!


I was wondering if you were going to check in here. I've been reading this thread with a mix of bemusement and dismay. :(

As I said for years, going varsity was going to be a double-edged sword. As you wrote last summer, those words were prophetic. Now, it's getting crowded under the bus! :rolleyes:

Yeah Steve, and no doubt that's something you know better than most... like I said on Facebook, it's not a coincidence that six months out from the end of the blog, I'm 28x happier back in the A than I was towards the end of that thing. Just too much BS. Great to be just a fan of the NCAA teams of course, but involvement beyond that? Eeesh. Best of luck to the good people who are making a go of that.

I was surprised there was nothing in the Collegian today... thought Mr. Pepperman or Ms. McCullion might have something to say.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Technically not, I posted (infrequently) under another name, then couldn't remember which email I used when trying to retrieve my password, and just signed up for a new account instead haha. But thanks!




Yeah Steve, and no doubt that's something you know better than most... like I said on Facebook, it's not a coincidence that six months out from the end of the blog, I'm 28x happier back in the A than I was towards the end of that thing. Just too much BS. Great to be just a fan of the NCAA teams of course, but involvement beyond that? Eeesh. Best of luck to the good people who are making a go of that.

I was surprised there was nothing in the Collegian today... thought Mr. Pepperman or Ms. McCullion might have something to say.

Hey, that was a great blog. Some of the best coverage out there for a women's hockey program.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Technically not, I posted (infrequently) under another name, then couldn't remember which email I used when trying to retrieve my password, and just signed up for a new account instead haha. But thanks!
Yeah Steve, and no doubt that's something you know better than most... like I said on Facebook, it's not a coincidence that six months out from the end of the blog, I'm 28x happier back in the A than I was towards the end of that thing. Just too much BS. Great to be just a fan of the NCAA teams of course, but involvement beyond that? Eeesh. Best of luck to the good people who are making a go of that.

I was surprised there was nothing in the Collegian today... thought Mr. Pepperman or Ms. McCullion might have something to say.

Or Mr. Stroemel. Speaking of being happier in the ACHA, it was nice to get out from under the bus in December and spend three weeks in Italy at the World University Games. :D
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Hey, that was a great blog. Some of the best coverage out there for a women's hockey program.

Thank you sir! Maybe the greatest outcome of the whole thing is that it really served as my introduction to the women's game after I didn't plan on doing anything with it when I started, and I haven't looked back since. Coincidentally, it was Cara Mendelson who really badgered me to get out to more women's games back during her freshman year. I work with PSU's ACHA women's team now, which includes many from the 2011-12 group who weren't carried over (and, hopefully not speaking out of turn here, some of these cuts for next season), so I do have an admitted bias in all of this.

FWIW, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has now picked up on the story:
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2014/04/26/Seven-Penn-State-players-cut-after-complaint-about-coach/stories/201404260069

Not much in the way of new information, although it certainly has a wider audience now, and Brooke Meyer is now on the record as well.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Or Mr. Stroemel. Speaking of being happier in the ACHA, it was nice to get out from under the bus in December and spend three weeks in Italy at the World University Games. :D

I had such a surreal moment watching WUG... my TV was broken and had a strong yellow tint. You were broadcasting, Coach Balboni was on the bench. No Penn Staters on the men's team, but certainly plenty of former opponents I'm more familiar with than their NCAA counterparts. It was fun.

And yeah, I forgot about Mo! I don't think it truly hit me how many people have been tossed aside during the process until all of this broke.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

I had such a surreal moment watching WUG... my TV was broken and had a strong yellow tint. You were broadcasting, Coach Balboni was on the bench. No Penn Staters on the men's team, but certainly plenty of former opponents I'm more familiar with than their NCAA counterparts. It was fun.

And yeah, I forgot about Mo! I don't think it truly hit me how many people have been tossed aside during the process until all of this broke.

Ah yes, the yellow lights of the Berg. Perhaps they're why I have such a jaundiced view of things! :rolleyes:

Did you know we did the games from the broadcast center and not the arena?
 
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Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Who made the most mistakes in this situation?

kind of an odd question, it reminds me of little children arguing over who is worse (in sports, isn't the goal to be the better?)

well, we finally got rid of our Women's Basketball coach here (U of MN) after a similar circumstance in 2006, and those weren't seldom playing bench warmers, they were key players, a couple starters, one of which had been the "6th man" on the final four team a couple years earlier.

in these situations, nobody really wins
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

For whatever it's worth, I got in on some of the hot gossip... without betraying confidences, I'll just say that I can verify that there are highly-contributing players who are also unhappy with the situation and were among the 13 in the meeting with the associate AD. There's also what seems to be a pretty deep rift between that group and others who have aligned themselves with the staff (the word "snitches" was thrown around). It's not very hard to figure out some members of that latter group based on letter wearing and ice time.

Doesn't seem like something that can sustain itself for much longer, but we'll see I guess. Probably goes without saying that this is not exactly what the program needs at a pretty critical stage of development.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Penn State announces their 2014-15 schedule: http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/w-...key-sched.html

Fri., Sep. 26 vs. Western Ontario EX
Fri., Oct. 3 at Minnesota
Sat., Oct. 4 vs. St. Cloud State
Sat., Oct. 11 vs. Quinnipiac
Sun., Oct. 12 vs. Quinnipiac
Fri., Oct. 17 at Union
Sat., Oct. 18 at Union
Sun., Oct. 26 vs. Princeton
Mon., Oct. 27 vs. Princeton
Fri., Oct. 31 at Syracuse
Sat., Nov. 1 at Syracuse
Fri., Nov. 7 at Colgate
Sat., Nov. 8 at Colgate
Fri., Nov. 14 at RIT
Sat., Nov. 15 at RIT
Fri., Nov. 21 vs. Lindenwood
Sat., Nov. 22 vs. Lindenwood
Fri., Dec. 5 at Robert Morris
Sat., Dec. 6 at Robert Morris
Fri., Dec. 12 vs. Mercyhurst
Sat., Dec. 13 vs. Mercyhurst
Sat., Jan. 3 vs. Ohio State
Sun., Jan. 4 vs. Ohio State
Fri., Jan. 16 vs. RIT
Sat., Jan. 17 vs. RIT
Fri., Jan. 23 at New Hampshire
Fri., Jan. 30 vs. Syracuse
Sat., Jan. 31 vs. Syracuse
Fri., Feb. 6 at Lindenwood
Sat., Feb. 7 at Lindenwood
Fri., Feb. 13 at Mercyhurst
Sat., Feb. 14 at Mercyhurst
Fri., Feb. 20 vs. Robert Morris
Sat., Feb. 21 vs. Robert Morris
 
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