The WCHA is clearly the best league, but most of the commenters on this board are fans of WCHA teams, which results in something of a bias past what's reasonable. Since there is apparently a Patty Kaz voter reading it, it's worth clarifying - Cornell has played the #11 ranked strength of schedule (according to myhockeyrankings), Minnesota is #7. That is a gap - but hardly a gaping chasm. (#1 through 8 in SoS are WCHA schools - so the stats agree about the conference, although Minnesota plays the second easiest of the WCHA schedules).
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Patty Kazmaier 2024
- Thread starter Timothy A
- Start date
The WCHA is clearly the best league, but most of the commenters on this board are fans of WCHA teams, which results in something of a bias past what's reasonable. Since there is apparently a Patty Kaz voter reading it, it's worth clarifying - Cornell has played the #11 ranked strength of schedule (according to myhockeyrankings), Minnesota is #7. That is a gap - but hardly a gaping chasm. (#1 through 8 in SoS are WCHA schools - so the stats agree about the conference, although Minnesota plays the second easiest of the WCHA schedules).
Agree with PuckLover. I understand the strength of the WCHA but you can't dismiss the points being put up in the ECAC and the grind week in and week out in the ECAC as well. Colgate, Cornell, Yale and St. Lawrence all have pretty strong strength of schedules in the top 12 or so. Not that much difference from a Minnesota at 7 and then these ECAC schools.
I do agree that when looking at stats from the CHA or Hockey East, the strength of schedules indicate that the level of competition week in and week out in those two leagues isn't nearly as strong.
I do agree that when looking at stats from the CHA or Hockey East, the strength of schedules indicate that the level of competition week in and week out in those two leagues isn't nearly as strong.
BackyardIce
Member
So we are using myhockeyrankings to determine strength of schedule??? There is a SoS built into the NPI, https://www.uscho.com/rankings/npi/d-i-women/
robertearle
Well-known member
And it says that Wisconsin has played the hardest schedule in the country, without yet having played Minnesota the second time and Ohio State the second time, AND having played a non-conference schedule that consisted of the #32, #26 and #13 NPI rated teams. I am a big UW fan, but even I find this QUITE hard to believe.
I don't know if they have some problem with that calculation, but how is that even close to being right? I mean, right now, Ohio State has played a somewhat harder conference schedule - Minnesota two weekends - AND played Colgate in their non-conference. How does that not rate harder than Wisconsin's schedule?
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And I have to wonder at the validity of the SOS rankings (and the NPI for that matter) when according to this table the 44th ranked team in the NPI (St Michaels @ 0-31-1) has supposedly the #2 SOS ranking??? Don't bother to look for the ST Michaels schedule at the USCHO site from the NEWHA Standings. The link does not work. From the St Michaels web site, the highest ranked team in the Pairwise they played was UNH at #21.
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LBartowski
New member
Timothy if you're not familiar with the goalie's splitting time, you're not listening to our podcast
Full disclosure, I'm on the Patty committee this year. We have done no voting yet. These are just the things running through my head as I try to figure out who I want to vote for.
If the criteria is most valuable player, that's Murphy hands down imo. That team is in a world of hurt if she's not playing the way she is. I will be very interested to see how folks outside the WCHA view her and how much the major penalties, embellishments and fighting play into how folks feel about her. But there is no one player in the country more important to her team/the team's success than Abbey Murphy.
I think the dark horse right now is SLU's Abby Hustler, who has 11 goals and 15 assists for 26 points (of a total of 49 for the season) over the 13 games since the winter break. She's been extra special in the biggest situations, including 7 goals and 3 assists over the last three weeks against all the other ranked ECAC teams.
The best players in the country are not the players that have the most points, they are the players that make the biggest difference on a team. They step up and take a leadership role when the chips are down. When they are on the ice they make people better with their hustle and leadership. Its easy to play in against any team when you are surrounded by Olympians and other top players. Teams cannot focus on one player because the others can carry the team. Great players and leaders find ways to make average players and teams better by what they do for the team and find ways to make a difference each game with goals, assists, block shots, possession, corner battles, face off circle, smart unselfish play, and d zone coverage. If you have a player that does those things, that is the top player. Obviously with that type of play, they will still be in the top 20 for points, but not always on the best team. That’s how defensemen and goalies get into the mix as well.
BackyardIce
Member
TTT’s PW/NPI/SoS calculator doesn’t seem to have the same hiccup as USCHO, https://www.bcinterruption.com/bost...023-2024-ncaa-womens-hockey-pairwise-rankings
Windchill22
Member
Murphy is undebatably the most important factor in Minnesota's success. She's done that by leading in two categories - 1) All The GOALS, 29 through 30 games and 2) Forcing the rest of her team to be one of the top penalty killing team in the nation by leading the nation in penalties, 35 through 30 games! - So how do you weight that in a vote for Patty?
My spectator view as a Badger Fan and a Hockey Fan in general: She frustrates me on multiple levels, she's such an excellent hockey player on the postive side, great positional/ice awareness, excellent shot, fast, all the good things. - Then of course there's the agitator side, does that contribute to her succcess or does it detract? Does she get the Power Play for her team because of her actions, or put the opposing team off their game before they even get to the rink, does/did it force her team to get really good at killing pentalites? I wonder what her career would look like if she didn't have that detraction stigma (could she even turn it off, or is it too late). Would she be as successful and would it make her a clear cut favorite for this high honor? My view for Patty - She's an excellent player, top tier for sure, but are there other players that have gotten to that level without the penalty minutes and are therefore more deserving.
Then there's the level of a Badger Fan and I thank the hockey gods that she does have that opposite side because despite my argument that her antics may contrubute to her success on some level, I think she'd be even greater if she didn't engage in that fashion and the Gophers would be even tougher than they already are!
jimmywallstreet
New member
If you’re throwing defender names out there you can’t omit Ally Simpson and Syd Bard, both leaders among Colgate’s all time point earners and critical to the team’s success and leadership.
Nice point, Colgate has some great players among the D.
robertearle
Well-known member
Yesterday, I happened to look 'underneath' at the grid of Pairwise comparisons at the USCHO web site and clicked on a couple of the comparisons. A little box pops up that is supposed to show the numbers for the two teams that make up the comparison. But none of them appeared to have anything for head-to-head or for 'common opponent' percentages. That is, it appears the USCHO Pairwise may not be the actual pairwise at all; more of a reprinting of the NPI ranking in a different format. Their grid show no pairs with any 'other' outcome besides straight 'NPI winner'.
Contrast that with Grant's grid, which does show a few comparisons where the team with the lower NPI is still winning the pair. None of those affect the top ten or fifteen in the rankings (for the moment; it may for Wisconsin vs Minnesota by the time the season's over, eg.). But as we get closer to where this all does matter, it rather distressing that the USCHO appears to have such problems.
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Northeastern fifth-year Gwyneth Philips has a career save percentage of .958 currently. During Northeastern vs Vermont on Saturday, the broadcasters said that this would become the NCAA record career save percentage if she maintains it in the postseason. I had trouble finding who has the current record - does anyone have an idea?
Philips was in the Patty Kaz top 10 last year.
Philips was in the Patty Kaz top 10 last year.
robertearle
Well-known member
Wisconsin's Ann-Renee Desbiens ended her career with a .955 percent. That's gotta be pretty close.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
In recent years, Northeastern has dominated HEA, and its top line has put up gaudy numbers. Before that, it was skaters from BC taking advantage of the Eagles dominance. Now? The top scorer from Hockey East is Ida Kuoppala of Maine who is tied for 20th; next is Natalie Mlynkova of UVM in a tie for 34th. Nobody else hits the top 49 (if I'm counting right) that College Hockey News shows.
I knew that the league was down in terms of teams being competitive, but I didn't realize that it was also slumping to that extent in terms of individual star power. There would be a certain irony in a Hockey East player then winning the Kaz.
Historically, this award hasn't been distributed equitably any more than the NCAA trophy has. Look at the ECAC, where the last three players from the league to win were all from Clarkson. Before that, you have to go back to 2008 when Harvard won the last of its six Kaz awards. The only other winner from an ECAC team was Ali Brewer in 2000. It would be nice to see someone like Izzy Daniel at least reach the top three.
That's very true about how Hockey East is down. I am not expecting for Philips to win the Patty Kaz award - but maybe it wouldn't be too surprising if she's in the top 10?
Of course, more than recognizing the statistics, getting an award must recognize how their team is doing and their competitive results. Nicole Haase also talked in a podcast about how they look at conference-game numbers in particular.
Maybe O'Brien wins the Patty Kaz? We'll see. : ) I do want to plug for ECAC top scorers Sarah Fillier and Izzy Daniel.
Of course, more than recognizing the statistics, getting an award must recognize how their team is doing and their competitive results. Nicole Haase also talked in a podcast about how they look at conference-game numbers in particular.
Maybe O'Brien wins the Patty Kaz? We'll see. : ) I do want to plug for ECAC top scorers Sarah Fillier and Izzy Daniel.