Patty Kaz

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: Patty Kaz

By the way I feel like we might have spoken at the game yesterday...

That could be possible but maybe it's someone else.

The name MrOpinion. Could you see that being any previous poster you know? Just joined and the first post is designed to stir the pot of bc fans. Does that match the MO of any former poster you know?

Just asking because this seems like the pokemeister to me.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kaz

I don't know if WE spoke yesterday but I KNOW that isn't Mr. Lonergan. I'm 100% sure he would wholeheartedly disagree with that poster. by the way, it's not her vs her. .......

And I was being facetious, hence the wink smiley face. As far as it's not her vs her, unfortunately in the Kaz voting it is. There is 10 her vs her and someone is gonna win it.
I'd also like to say that just looking at the forwards on the list, I think all of them would agree that they would give a huge thank you to their line mates and team mates.

Looking at the top 3 or 4 candidates in my opinion

Bach has Leslie and Rodgers
Lonergan & Watts have each other and Not sure who the 3rd forward is
Gabel has Pejzlova and Giguere

I have to think that 3 of those 4 are going to be voted as the 3 finalists with the numbers they have put up.

I still say it is Bach, Gabel and Watts and that Watts becomes the first freshman to win the award.

Forgive me Loren, Savannah and Shea.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Patty Kaz

I don't know if WE spoke yesterday but I KNOW that isn't Mr. Lonergan. I'm 100% sure he would wholeheartedly disagree with that poster. by the way, it's not her vs her. That's what makes the 2 what they are.

please go away and post on the West's thread.

I just want to add that in the 2nd period today, Caitrin Lonergan took a hit along the boards and Watts immediately came over and chewed out one of the Vermont players for it, skated over to Caitrin, and gave her a pat on the back.

I don't get the impression that they're worried about who's the "best."

EDIT: Here's the clip; Watts had had just about enough of people running her liney: https://gfycat.com/PoisedDeterminedElkhound

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kaz

I just want to add that in the 2nd period today, Caitrin Lonergan took a hit along the boards and Watts immediately came over and chewed out one of the Vermont players for it, skated over to Caitrin, and gave her a pat on the back.

I don't get the impression that they're worried about who's the "best."

EDIT: Here's the clip; Watts had had just about enough of people running her liney: https://gfycat.com/PoisedDeterminedElkhound

Yep, she chewed out the wrong player. #29 with the hit and in your clip Watts is talking to #14.

Maybe Watts wanted #14 to put in a good word with the Vermont coach for her as the best player. Again the smiley face. Just kidding Grant.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Patty Kaz

Yep, she chewed out the wrong player. #29 with the hit and in your clip Watts is talking to #14.

Heh I know but I think just prior to the hit, #14 had given Caitrin a bit of a leg slash too.

Caitrin was just getting ridden all game (it seems like she always is); I got the sense that Daryl was tired of it.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Patty Kaz

So has a Freshman ever won? Typically isn't the PK a bit of a lifetime achievement award?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Patty Kaz

So has a Freshman ever won?

No, neither has a sophomore. In fact I think Raty and Agosta are the only players to even make the final 3 as a freshman?

Typically isn't the PK a bit of a lifetime achievement award?

Not really, in fact wasn't that the argument against Agosta winning that "she had a good year but this isn't a lifetime achievement award"? I could be making that up, but that's how I remember it.

EDIT: Same with Brandt.

 

[ARM]

Re: Patty Kaz

In theory it isn't a lifetime achievement award, but it plays out that way in practice. The reason is that the coaches who vote have had more chance to observe upperclassmen and they are more likely to have made a favorable impression. I've heard the discussion for this and other awards, and when it comes to coaches, being a senior does have value.

 

[hockeyluver12]

Re: Patty Kaz

Anyone know why Kassidy Sauve of Ohio State is not on this list and Kristen Campbell is??? 300 more shots and less games played. This is a no brainer.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Patty Kaz

So has a Freshman ever won? Typically isn't the PK a bit of a lifetime achievement award?

has someone won the PK without ever scoring a single regular season goal against a top 10 pairwise finisher?

 

[FireKnight]

Re: Patty Kaz

In theory it isn't a lifetime achievement award, but it plays out that way in practice. The reason is that the coaches who vote have had more chance to observe upperclassmen and they are more likely to have made a favorable impression. I've heard the discussion for this and other awards, and when it comes to coaches, being a senior does have value.

Most of these awards have some kind of thing about sportsmanship on and off the ice. They usually document some of the things that the winner has done on campus and in the community. As a freshman, you haven't really had the chance to build that resume. In a group of very talented players, that could be the deciding factor.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Patty Kaz

No, neither has a sophomore. In fact I think Raty and Agosta are the only players to even make the final 3 as a freshman?

Not really, in fact wasn't that the argument against Agosta winning that "she had a good year but this isn't a lifetime achievement award"? I could be making that up, but that's how I remember it.

EDIT: Same with Brandt.

Watts is cooked then.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Watts is cooked then.

I'll bet you otherwise

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Patty Kaz

Most of these awards have some kind of thing about sportsmanship on and off the ice.

I remain deeply skeptical that these criteria are anything more than boilerplate that is largely ignored during the voting. Sure, it gets quoted in the press release, but, in an odd coincidence, it always seems to be the player with the best stats that is also the best humanitarian and sportsman. It's eerie.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

I remain deeply skeptical that these criteria are anything more than boilerplate that is largely ignored during the voting. Sure, it gets quoted in the press release, but, in an odd coincidence, it always seems to be the player with the best stats that is also the best humanitarian and sportsman. It's eerie.

I think it comes down to the fact that the award is described on their website as:

<I>"The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey."</I>

Everything else is secondary (or even tertiary) and is described as "other criteria".

Everyone always overrates the extent to which this is some kind of sportsmanship award. It says it clearly right there in the very first line: this is a best player award. There are other factors considered, but they are secondary to the fact that they identify the award as one that goes to the sport's top player.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Patty Kaz

I think it comes down to the fact that the award is described on their website as:

<I>"The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey."</I>

Everything else is secondary (or even tertiary) and is described as "other criteria".

I don't think that, textually, that's as clear cut as you do, though it clearly is in practice. The phrase "top player" is open to a very wide range of plausible interpretations. Rather than being secondary criteria, what follows could be read as the definition of the previous sentence. Granted, they muddle everything with the use of the word "other," but that just makes the whole nonsensical. It's hard to imagine the meaning "top player" not including "outstanding individual and team skills." The whole thing dissolves into incoherence, allowing the voters to use whatever criteria they want to. Given voters' strong tendency to hand the "Outstanding Defensive Player of the . . ." to whichever defenseman has scored the most points, there's no indication that they really think about the written criteria at all.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Re: Patty Kaz

Cutting to the chase a little bit, has there ever been a freshman contender as strong as Watts?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

I don't think that, textually, that's as clear cut as you do, though it clearly is in practice. The phrase "top player" is open to a very wide range of plausible interpretations. Rather than being secondary criteria, what follows could be read as the definition of the previous sentence. Granted, they muddle everything with the use of the word "other," but that just makes the whole nonsensical. It's hard to imagine the meaning "top player" not including "outstanding individual and team skills." The whole thing dissolves into incoherence, allowing the voters to use whatever criteria they want to. Given voters' strong tendency to hand the "Outstanding Defensive Player of the . . ." to whichever defenseman has scored the most points, there's no indication that they really think about the written criteria at all.

Well I certainly don't disagree with this

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Cutting to the chase a little bit, has there ever been a freshman contender as strong as Watts?

Good question... Chu who set the freshman scoring record did so in an era of ridiculous scoring and was outdone by her teammate who won the Kaz anyway, and Chu didn't make the final 3.

Agosta made the final 3 playing in a weak league.

Räty was the other freshman to make the final 3 but she was a goalie so tough to compare.

I guess my answer to that is that the answer appears to be no. In fact, Watts' PPG numbers would be 7th all time among Kaz winners (keeping in mind scoring back in the day was absurd with a dozen goals scored every other game) and is comparable to Coyne's.

 

[Lindsay]

has someone won the PK without ever scoring a single regular season goal against a top 10 pairwise finisher?

My gut says it’s going to Gabel. Not a bad pick. Women’s hockey badly needs an ice breaker tourney at the start of the year. Watts played against the number four team to start the season, then never played a team ranked higher than 8. I’m a Watts fan but I don’t think they will award the Patty Kaz to a freshman who played that schedule, as alluded to in the comment above. With 3 BC players in the top ten I wonder if that will split the vote and prevent anyone of them from winning.