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Patty Kaz 2012

Re: Patty Kaz 2012

There needs to be a case for Hilary to win the award, without resorting to career achievement. That's not to say career achievement is irrelevant -- the way I'd put it, it matters in terms of how voters will rationalize their choices. But there needs to be a strong case, e.g. Meghan Agosta was not able to win because there wasn't a strong enough argument for her in any one season.

I do believe there is a case for Hilary at the moment. I laid it out before. The WCHA stats, the 17 goals, while the next best is JLam with 13 and everyone else is 11 or fewer -- that stands out for me, plus the context of those goals. The Minnesota games right after break are crucial. Hilary was 0-0-0 in the first Minnesota series. It'd be hard to win the Kaz if you're scoreless in 4 close games against your top rival.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
Yes, conference & team representation. Wisconsin has 3 strong forward contenders and the WCHA has at least seven strong forward contenders. It'll be tough for Rigsby to get votes.

Schelling meanwhile is the No. 1 contender in Hockey East. Despite that awful performance against Princeton, she is 5th in GAA and 2nd in save percentage among the clear No. 1 goalies (dropping the Brown and Union goalies who've basically split time). Schelling is also a past Kaz 10 selection. Though yes, I don't see her getting Kampersal's vote.
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Talking about Goalies, how about one from the ECAC. Howe from Clarkson has the best GAA AND the most minutes. You can argue a large part of Clarkson's success todate has been thanks to her. If Clarkson ends up making a run in the second half, she would have to be considered.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

OnMAA said:
Talking about Goalies, how about one from the ECAC. Howe from Clarkson has the best GAA AND the most minutes. You can argue a large part of Clarkson's success todate has been thanks to her. If Clarkson ends up making a run in the second half, she would have to be considered.
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She's definitely rebounded after a somewhat shaky start, getting lit up by SLU and giving up 3 goals on not many shots in ties to both Vermont and UConn, a couple of teams Clarkson should be able to beat. That could have been her defense, not her, but it still adversely impacts her resume.

The question will be what happens when she plays better competition. The 2-2 tie with BU doesn't look as good as it once did. Only gave up two goals a game to Harvard, but they were both losses. She had a tie with Dartmouth, another two-goals-against game, so the shutout of Dartmouth is probably her signature game thus far. The Cornell games will be huge in terms of making a statement.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Sure, if Clarkson makes a run... but Clarkson only has 1 win over a team above .500 this season (Quinnipiac). Also, unlike Schelling, Howe has a lot more talent in conference to contend with for votes.

Clarkson does have games left against BC, Northeastern, and Cornell (twice), so she'll have a lot of opportunity to prove herself.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Spooner seems to be doing a ton without the help many other candidates get. Coyne just might take NU to the top of Hockey East after finishing fifth last year. There should also be more top D from the average programs identified.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

I don't think there is a clear-cut winner this year, but I believe any reasonable fan would have to put J. Lam in the top 3.

2nd in the nation in points, while leading the nation in assists.
Cut down considerable in PIM's compared to her first two seasons.
Has energized and elevated her play as UND was ranked 5th in a USCHO poll (highest ever)
Compared to other top international players IN international events, she has shined for Team USA.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

northhockey said:
2nd in the nation in points, while leading the nation in assists.
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Impressive
Cut down considerable in PIM's compared to her first two seasons.
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That's good
Has energized and elevated her play as UND was ranked 5th in a USCHO poll (highest ever)
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Not all that impressive. Show me JLam leading UND to a win over Wisconsin, and then that's impressive.
Compared to other top international players IN international events, she has shined for Team USA.
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Irrelevant, or at least it should be.

The race for the top 3 is still very wide open, though I suspect Bram and Johnston are probably the only serious contenders outside the WCHA.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
The race for the top 3 is still very wide open, though I suspect Bram and Johnston are probably the only serious contenders outside the WCHA.
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I'd put Schelling ahead of Johnston right now, mainly because of the lack of marquee games for R.J. A nice weekend against BU is starting to look like a footnote, missed Dartmouth and Harvard, a goal and a 2nd assist in middle period of the MC win, no points and a -1 in the loss. She'll need more to get to final three. Although I guess Schelling doesn't exactly have a "Wow!" win either.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Well, after 2 periods at Mercyhurst, MC leads 5-0. Guess who has 5 points. Yep, Bram. Mercyhurst rolling all lines.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

MICZamboni said:
Well, after 2 periods at Mercyhurst, MC leads 5-0. Guess who has 5 points. Yep, Bram. Mercyhurst rolling all lines.
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Good for her, but I'm not sure games against Lindenwood belong anywhere near a Kaz discussion. When we get serious about narrowing down the list, the first thing I'm going to do is subtract out points earned against the Lions or any other statistically challenged teams.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

ARM said:
Good for her, but I'm not sure games against Lindenwood belong anywhere near a Kaz discussion. When we get serious about narrowing down
the list, the first thing I'm going to do is subtract out points earned against the Lions or any other statistically challenged teams.
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Umm...ok.....anyway, Bram (who should be a top 10 finalist) ended up with 6 points.
 
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Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
Impressive

That's good

Not all that impressive. Show me JLam leading UND to a win over Wisconsin, and then that's impressive.

Irrelevant, or at least it should be.

The race for the top 3 is still very wide open, though I suspect Bram and Johnston are probably the only serious contenders outside the WCHA.
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If a win over wisconsin would be relevant, how would a ranking of 5th not be?

"An award of The USA Hockey Foundation, the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey. Other selection criteria include outstanding individual and TEAM skills, sportsmanship, performance in the clutch, personal character, competitiveness and a love of hockey. Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement."
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

My simple conclusion, is that she has barely been mentioned and Im not saying she should be the winner, but she is a top scorer, and is leading a team that at the moment is #3 in the wcha. and normally, the usual top 3 conference teams are the nat. champs. a little respect would be nice.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
There needs to be a case for Hilary to win the award, without resorting to career achievement. That's not to say career achievement is irrelevant -- the way I'd put it, it matters in terms of how voters will rationalize their choices.
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Oh I agree. I don't think career should be a factor - I'm just saying that if Hilary goes her 4 years without the Patty, it would be a shame in my book. Unlucky and unfortunate for her.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

ARM said:
I'd put Schelling ahead of Johnston right now, mainly because of the lack of marquee games for R.J. A nice weekend against BU is starting to look like a footnote, missed Dartmouth and Harvard, a goal and a 2nd assist in middle period of the MC win, no points and a -1 in the loss. She'll need more to get to final three. Although I guess Schelling doesn't exactly have a "Wow!" win either.
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I agree Schelling is ahead of Johnston right now if you were to vote today, but I think Johnston has better long-term prospects to contend simply because she's on a much better team. It's hard for a goalie to make top 3 when she's on a team ranked in the 6th-10th range. Schelling will probably get lit up a couple more times.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Re: JLam, I agree she's in the mix to make the top 3 or even win. I agree UND having a 5th-7th ranking means more for her candidacy than it would for other players from programs who have always been there. That said, I don't see JLam cracking the top 3 unless she stands out more in the next round of games against Minnesota and Wisconsin.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Re: Bram, she's definitely in contention. For her to win the award, Bram has to keep her current scoring pace. Mercyhurst has to win out or come close. The Feb. 7 rubber match against Cornell is huge for the candidacy of both Bram & Johnston -- neither wins the award without a victory and a standout performance in that game.

It's the same kind of low margin for error that Agosta faced last season, when your competition for the award includes players from the No. 1 team in the strongest conference, winning on against the toughest competition on a regular basis.
 
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Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Bram got hurt tonight about 4 shifts into the game.. still was able to put up 3 points in 4 shifts.. good for her.. does anyone know if she will be okay or anything?
 
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