Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

[Split-N]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

So how do you really feel?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear:

1) Sneaker/apparel makers have much social damage to answer for.
2) The P5, with rare exceptions, is corrupt to its core.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

OK, but then what did ASU spend the $6.3 million they reported as Sports Equipment, Uniforms, and Supplies expenses for the 2017-18 season?

I could see the uniforms being free, as in the shirt and pants, but other things that fit in this category having to be paid for by the school (helmets and helmet decals/wraps, shoulder pads, etc) This category also probably includes weight room and training equipment and blocking sleds, etc. I also wonder whether the purchase price of fan merchandise is in this figure, with the revenue it generates captured on the other side, or whether that would appear elsewhere in the athletic department or school administration budgets.

 

[Sol Diablo]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear:

1) Sneaker/apparel makers have much social damage to answer for.
2) The P5, with rare exceptions, is corrupt to its core.

Can't say I'm following you on sports apparel causing social damage.
Since corruption is typically another word for bribery, & since there are only a few cases of that, I respectfully disagree concerning massive corruption at P5 schools.

 

[Leather Lungs]

...

 

[Split-N]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

...ASU reported a nearly $2.7 million loss on football ($52.8 million total expenses) for 2017-18..

...football but also subsidizes "minor" sports...

How does ASU football subsidize anything if it loses almost $3 million? In the bigger picture, why aren't P5 powerhouses (most of them, anyway) that generate tens--even hundreds--of millions on football not put money into their institutions' general funds instead of taking money from them to cover operating deficits?

Can't say I'm following you on sports apparel causing social damage.
Since corruption is typically another word for bribery, & since there are only a few cases of that, I respectfully disagree concerning massive corruption at P5 schools.

Wow! So where to start? Maybe with executives from the big time shoe companies tripping over each other paying out under the table "incentives" in their unending quest to "broker" athletes to various P5 institutions. Or maybe the pending Federal investigations into same. Need more?

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/09/the-corruption-of-college-athletics/

And as for social damage: https://www.mtv.com/news/2547224/sneaker-culture-deaths/

Finally, corruption goes well beyond bribery. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

I don't know about UConn, but UMass football is profitable. Losing can pay handsomely.

UMass NCAA financials profit/loss for football:
2010 - $ -3.59 million
2011 - $ -3.74 million
2012 - $ -4.79 million
2013 - $ -5.38 million
2014 - $ -5.37 million
2015 - $ -5.32 million
2016 - $ -5.69 million
2017 - $ -6.65 million
2018 - $ -6.89 million

That doesn't look very profitable to me.

Sean

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

How does ASU football subsidize anything if it loses almost $3 million? In the bigger picture, why aren't P5 powerhouses (most of them, anyway) that generate tens--even hundreds--of millions on football putting money into their institutions' general funds instead of taking money from them to cover operating deficits?.

To be fair ASU did report football profits of $16.29 million in 2016 and $11.64 million in 2017, which is why I have an averaged sheet for my hockey financials. A single year gives a snapshot in time, but you need to look at multiple years to get a clearer picture. Mind you, that profit still comes nowhere close to covering ASU's non-football expenses of $62 million in 2016 or their non-football expenses of $67.1 million in 2017 (nor their non-football expenses of $74 million in 2018). Even OSU, which reported $64.6 million in football profits for 2018, doesn't cover 50% of their $157.7 million non-football expenses.

Sean

 

[DavidNardolillo]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

UMass NCAA financials profit/loss for football:
2010 - $ -3.59 million
2011 - $ -3.74 million
2012 - $ -4.79 million
2013 - $ -5.38 million
2014 - $ -5.37 million
2015 - $ -5.32 million
2016 - $ -5.69 million
2017 - $ -6.65 million
2018 - $ -6.89 million

That doesn't look very profitable to me.

Sean

The poor return on investment for UMass moving to I-A in football has been well-documented: https://commonwealthmagazine.org/education/umass-football-thrown-for-big-losses/

Chasing big-time college football money from the lower divisions was always a dangerous game, even more so in the Northeast.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

UMass NCAA financials profit/loss for football:
That doesn't look very profitable to me.
Sean

As a sales manager once said: "Yes, we're losing a little on each sale, but we'll make up those loses with more volume..."

The number is getting bigger each year and as we all know: "Bigger is Better."

 

[Split-N]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

To be fair ASU did report football profits of $16.29 million in 2016 and $11.64 million in 2017, which is why I have an averaged sheet for my hockey financials. A single year gives a snapshot in time, but you need to look at multiple years to get a clearer picture. Mind you, that profit still comes nowhere close to covering ASU's non-football expenses of $62 million in 2016 or their non-football expenses of $67.1 million in 2017 (nor their non-football expenses of $74 million in 2018). Even OSU, which reported $64.6 million in football profits for 2018, doesn't cover 50% of their $157.7 million non-football expenses.

Sean

Thanks as usual for crunching the numbers. Would appreciate if you could shed some light on what those seemingly massive "non-football expenses" might include.

 

[Sol Diablo]

How does ASU football subsidize anything if it loses almost $3 million? In the bigger picture, why aren't P5 powerhouses (most of them, anyway) that generate tens--even hundreds--of millions on football not put money into their institutions' general funds instead of taking money from them to cover operating deficits?



Wow! So where to start? Maybe with executives from the big time shoe companies tripping over each other paying out under the table "incentives" in their unending quest to "broker" athletes to various P5 institutions. Or maybe the pending Federal investigations into same. Need more?

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/09/the-corruption-of-college-athletics/




And as for social damage: https://www.mtv.com/news/2547224/sneaker-culture-deaths/



Finally, corruption goes well beyond bribery. Let's just leave it at that.

Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.

 

[Sol Diablo]

As a sales manager once said: "Yes, we're losing a little on each sale, but we'll make up those loses with more volume..."

The number is getting bigger each year and as we all know: "Bigger is Better."

That is a common funny saying about volume & profit. & you probably already know this, however, for others reading this thread,it somewhat depends on the type of business for it to hold true. For instance, airplane flights have fixed & variable costs. After a certain number of seats are sold the fixed coats are covered. Additional seat sales become profitable. Same thing occurs in mining, refining, chemicals, many manufacturing,& maybe pro hockey game attendance?

 

[Split-N]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.

It's not the shoes and equipment. It's the exclusionary pricing and the marketing pitches that say you're not cool if you aren't wearing this stuff. Bear in mind that prices might be a tad more affordable if not for the fact that (IMO) the outlandish amounts being paid to athlete and coach endorsers are baked into the retail prices. And how about the fact that many (tho not all) P5 football powers that generate tens of millions in revenue end up taking additional money from the general funds rather than putting some of that revenue into the general funds?

With respect, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the depth and extent of P5 corruption.

 

[mookie1995]

As a sales manager once said: "Yes, we're losing a little on each sale, but we'll make up those loses with more volume..."

The number is getting bigger each year and as we all know: "Bigger is Better."

Gonna guess jerseys can’t follow how that may work out

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.

You need to watch The Scheme if you think there isn't much corruption going on. That movie was going to blast out during the NCAA tournament, and ended up getting lost in the wash of canceled sports and the pandemic.

The primary reason that you aren't seeing a lot of convictions is two-fold. First, at least one of the FBI people involved in the investigation turned up dirty himself, which made it somewhat problematic to prosecute.

Second, the "corruption" is not so much violations of the law as it is corruption of college athletics.

If I give a kid $100,000 to play hockey at UND, I don't think anyone has committed a crime. However, supposedly I have broken innumerable NCAA rules. NCAA rules are not laws. You don't go to jail for violating them, you get kicked out of NCAA sanctioned athletics.

So, when shoe companies funnel millions to kids, through coaches and handlers, it is a clear violation of whatever NCAA rules we think supposedly govern athletics, but it's less clear exactly what laws have been broken. Usually it has to do with a public employee (coach) soliciting or accepting bribes. But in those instances, the coaches themselves need to be profiting, I think.

 

[Sol Diablo]

It's not the shoes and equipment. It's the exclusionary pricing and the marketing pitches that say you're not cool if you aren't wearing this stuff. Bear in mind that prices might be a tad more affordable if not for the fact that (IMO) the outlandish amounts being paid to athlete and coach endorsers are baked into the retail prices. And how about the fact that many (tho not all) P5 football powers that generate tens of millions in revenue end up taking additional money from the general funds rather than putting some of that revenue into the general funds?

With respect, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the depth and extent of P5 corruption.

You brought up some good points, and fair enough to agree to disagree, with all respect. Let's hope hockey returns for '20-'21!

 

[Sol Diablo]

You need to watch The Scheme if you think there isn't much corruption going on. That movie was going to blast out during the NCAA tournament, and ended up getting lost in the wash of canceled sports and the pandemic.

The primary reason that you aren't seeing a lot of convictions is two-fold. First, at least one of the FBI people involved in the investigation turned up dirty himself, which made it somewhat problematic to prosecute.

Second, the "corruption" is not so much violations of the law as it is corruption of college athletics.

If I give a kid $100,000 to play hockey at UND, I don't think anyone has committed a crime. However, supposedly I have broken innumerable NCAA rules. NCAA rules are not laws. You don't go to jail for violating them, you get kicked out of NCAA sanctioned athletics.

So, when shoe companies funnel millions to kids, through coaches and handlers, it is a clear violation of whatever NCAA rules we think supposedly govern athletics, but it's less clear exactly what laws have been broken. Usually it has to do with a public employee (coach) soliciting or accepting bribes. But in those instances, the coaches themselves need to be profiting, I think.

You've got some good points. I'll have to try to find that documentary. Thanks!

 

[ericredaxe]

Stanford (with a 26 billion dollar endowment.. the 4th largest of all universities) cut 11 varsity sports today.

I’d guess others cuts will follow at other universities as budgets get strained.

i wonder if any hockey programs are in danger?

 

[Sol Diablo]

Stanford (with a 26 billion dollar endowment.. the 4th largest of all universities) cut 11 varsity sports today.

I’d guess others cuts will follow at other universities as budgets get strained.

i wonder if any hockey programs are in danger?

They are moving those Olympics type sports to club status, for now.

 

[ericredaxe]

Dartmouth follows up Stanford by cutting 5 varsity sports.... and these are schools with some of the biggest endowments there are.

Gotta imagine we are going to see some thing happen to at least a couple of hockey programs.