Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[Russell Jaslow]

That statement is weird. If it were just lack of contract, he could have just pointed that out. But to go so far to specify that he won’t be driving for them.

Tells me he has a contract with McLaren, which of course means Ricciardo is out.

Either that, or Mark Webber is an absolute idiot in the advice he is giving Piastri...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

TIL, thank you!

So is the idea that you can put the softs on later because the lower weight means more laps before they fray?

Yes because lower weight (thanks to less fuel) means less abuse on the tires, so they last longer. Softs at the start of the race will not last as long as softs at the end of the race. (Same goes with any tire compound.)

IMO, the only reason why you want to use softs at the start of a race is because either you want to pass a lot of cars as soon as possible because you qualified poorly or you want to open up a large lead right away to take away the threat of the undercut.

 

[MichVandal]

Tells me he has a contract with McLaren, which of course means Ricciardo is out.

Either that, or Mark Webber is an absolute idiot in the advice he is giving Piastri...

Wasn’t he pinned to Williams already?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Wasn’t he pinned to Williams already?

No. Except in rumors and calculated guesses.

That's where Alpine wanted to send him, but Webber kept balking, because he knew McLaren might be available, and Williams was obviously the worst choice possibly available. Nothing was ever signed or announced from Williams or Alpine on that possible location.

 

[MichVandal]

No. Except in rumors and calculated guesses.

That's where Alpine wanted to send him, but Webber kept balking, because he knew McLaren might be available, and Williams was obviously the worst choice possibly available. Nothing was ever signed or announced from Williams or Alpine on that possible location.

Hard to keep track of these kids, DeVries did test with them…

 

[solovsfett]

The new rumor…Andretti teams with Alpine and either Herta or Grosjean take the open seat.

 

[Kepler]

This is incredible. I'll bet I'm only getting 1% of the jokes but the ones I do are hilarious. Be sure to go through all the close ups and zoom on them, there are a zillion details.

Edit: make sure to read the Comments which explain about a hundred different gags.

 

[Kepler]

McLaren will buy out Danny Ric contract and replace him with Piastri.

 

[Kepler]

What are your favorite F1 blogs, podcasts, or sites, both funny and serious?

Dr. Mrs. & I are hooked on Choosing Sides: F1. It is very good for us -- basically, introduction but for intelligent people.

 

[MichVandal]

I kind of watch Mark Priestly YouTube, but he’s so busy filming Wheeler Dealer that he’s not done a post race hour for a while.

Chainbear has some good info, covers technical issues well. And I get most of my news from The Race and F1 directly.

other than that, I rely on posters linking news ( here and a car magazine board I’ve been part of for about 25 years.

 

[Kepler]

So I have read that Porsche, Audi, Andretti, Honda have all said they are looking to join F1 in the next few seasons. Will we be seeing the end of the "development team" era (Alpha Tauri, Williams, maybe Haas).

Also will Alpine just rebrand back to Renault to get away from The Incident?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

So I have read that Porsche, Audi, Andretti, Honda have all said they are looking to join F1 in the next few seasons. Will we be seeing the end of the "development team" era (Alpha Tauri, Williams, maybe Haas).

Also will Alpine just rebrand back to Renault to get away from The Incident?

Porsche is going to hook up with Red Bull. Porsche is exploring the possibility of buying 50% of Red Bull (news leaked after a formal filing in Morocco, of all places, was revealed). Porsche will also supply AlphaTauri, but one has to wonder how long they will be willing to keep owning that team as well.

Audi is most likely going to buy Alpha Romeo, which is just Sauber with Alpha Romeo sponsorship. It's not a factory team at all. It will be once Audi buys them. They will buy 25% stake each year for three years, leaving Sauber to own 25%.

Both of these moves are dependent on the FIA finally, officially approving the engine rules for 2026.

Honda is reconsidering their move to leave F1. Typical Honda. Who they will hook up with is anybody's guess. Williams and perhaps McLaren (how ironic) are the only real possibilities. Haas still seems too attached to Ferrari. But money talks...

Andretti wanted to buy Sauber. Sauber upped their price when Andretti thought he had a deal. Now, Andretti wants to start a team from scratch, but currently does not have the support/approval of the FIA and the other teams. If he does, it is no secret that he will hook up with Renault (Alpine) for their engines.

The original reason to rename Renault to Alpine was to promote that brand as their performance brand in Europe. So, ultimately, it's up to Renault to decide how best to market their brands.

 

[Kepler]

Porsche is going to hook up with Red Bull. Porsche is exploring the possibility of buying 50% of Red Bull (news leaked after a formal filing in Morocco, of all places, was revealed). Porsche will also supply AlphaTauri, but one has to wonder how long they will be willing to keep owning that team as well.

Audi is most likely going to buy Alpha Romeo, which is just Sauber with Alpha Romeo sponsorship. It's not a factory team at all. It will be once Audi buys them. They will buy 25% stake each year for three years, leaving Sauber to own 25%.

Both of these moves are dependent on the FIA finally, officially approving the engine rules for 2026.

Honda is reconsidering their move to leave F1. Typical Honda. Who they will hook up with is anybody's guess. Williams and perhaps McLaren (how ironic) are the only real possibilities. Haas still seems too attached to Ferrari. But money talks...

Andretti wanted to buy Sauber. Sauber upped their price when Andretti thought he had a deal. Now, Andretti wants to start a team from scratch, but currently does not have the support/approval of the FIA and the other teams. If he does, it is no secret that he will hook up with Renault (Alpine) for their engines.

The original reason to rename Renault to Alpine was to promote that brand as their performance brand in Europe. So, ultimately, it's up to Renault to decide how best to market their brands.

So how does FIA decide which ten teams are in? Do they auction the spots? Does a team only rent a spot year to year and can be outbid the next? (I'd think that would make sponsorship risky.) I assume it will always be ten, they will not have expansion, so if a new team starts up that means somebody dies.

If I read the above right, we would wind up with:

Ferrari
Mercedes
Porsche-Red Bull (I would so prefer this be called Porsche; the Red Bull people seem like pr-cks)

Renault "Alpine"
McLaren (maybe with Honda)
Audi-Alpha Romeo
Lance Stroll's Paid Seat (currently Aston Martin)

Williams (Mercedes' second team) or maybe Honda
Alpha Tauri (Porsche's second team) or maybe Andretti
Haas (Ferrari's second team)

 

[Kepler]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why don't these companies have F1 presence? They are all (1) European and (2) high status.

1. Jaguar (seems like a natural British equivalent of Ferrari)
2. BMW (natural Mercedes rival)
3. Maserati or Lamborghini (cars for idiots with too much money, perfect hype)
4. VW (no sillier than Reneault)
5. (Something from China)

 

[MichVandal]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why don't these companies have F1 presence? They are all (1) European and (2) high status.

1. Jaguar (seems like a natural British equivalent of Ferrari)
2. BMW (natural Mercedes rival)
3. Maserati or Lamborghini (cars for idiots with too much money, perfect hype)
4. VW (no sillier than Reneault)
5. (Something from China)

First of all, you guys MUST get Alfa Romeo right, ALFA is an acronym, and is one of the earliest great marques in Grand Prix history- they are the honest parent of Ferrari.

But now, they are part of Stellantis, which is also all of Fiat, which Maserati is also part of. So that counts them out as real alternatives to Ferrari.

VW is Audi, so once they get in, no point for VW. Odd that Porsche is also part of that, but they pretend to be independent anyway.

Jag and BMW btdt. Jag had zero success thanks to parent company Ford at the time. BMW had had a lot of success previously, but I bet the current investment is just too much.

In the end, for real teams, the current teams gets to decide who gets to play- and given some recent history, that’s kind of fair. USF1 got a place, made a big deal, and never turned a wheel.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

So how does FIA decide which ten teams are in? Do they auction the spots? Does a team only rent a spot year to year and can be outbid the next? (I'd think that would make sponsorship risky.) I assume it will always be ten, they will not have expansion, so if a new team starts up that means somebody dies.

If I read the above right, we would wind up with:

Ferrari
Mercedes
Porsche-Red Bull (I would so prefer this be called Porsche; the Red Bull people seem like pr-cks)

Renault "Alpine"
McLaren (maybe with Honda)
Audi-Alpha Romeo
Lance Stroll's Paid Seat (currently Aston Martin)

Williams (Mercedes' second team) or maybe Honda
Alpha Tauri (Porsche's second team) or maybe Andretti
Haas (Ferrari's second team)

The Concorde Agreement, which contractually ties the teams and F1, states there can be 12 teams (each must enter two cars). Right now there are 10. But here's the catch. Ten teams divide up the purse money (50% of F1's profits). The purse money does not expand if 11 or 12 teams enter the series. See where I'm going with this?

In order for another team to enter, they must 1) pay $200 million fee to F1 which will get distributed among the current teams to make up for the possible loss of prize money by having an extra team and 2) receive the approval of the FIA (they want to make sure the new team has the financial wherewithal to survive, no different than any other sports league when they approve a new franchise's owners) and the other teams (see where I'm going with this again?).

The FIA has said (unofficially, because they never came out and said this) they rather have a manufacturer enter as an 11th team, not an independent. The teams will come up with any excuse to keep out a new team, because you know where I went with that...

As for your list, I don't see Andretti buying AlphaTauri (it's one word, BTW; it's the high end fashion line owned by Red Bull). Otherwise, everything else is correct.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

First of all, you guys MUST get Alfa Romeo right, ALFA is an acronym, and is one of the earliest great marques in Grand Prix history- they are the honest parent of Ferrari.

Good heavens, I can't believe I screwed that up. I blame Kepler. May the F1 gods forgive my sins.

VW is Audi, so once they get in, no point for VW. Odd that Porsche is also part of that, but they pretend to be independent anyway.

True. Plus, rumors have Porsche breaking away from VW and taken back by the family (who essentially still controls them). There is going to be an IPO just for Porsche stock soon.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Jag had zero success thanks to parent company Ford at the time.

This was essentially Ford's team. They just happen to name it Jaguar for marketing reasons, mainly for Europe. Similar to Renault naming their team Alpine.

Yes, Ford screwed it up, but it wasn't because of the name. It was because of good ole large American bureaucracy. Similar reasons why Toyota's F1 effort was a complete disaster.

 

[Kepler]

First of all, you guys MUST get Alfa Romeo right, ALFA is an acronym, and is one of the earliest great marques in Grand Prix history- they are the honest parent of Ferrari.

OK, OK, Alfa. Sorry. Why isn't it ALFA?

(Alfa) are part of Stellantis, which is also all of Fiat, which Maserati is also part of.

TIL #1

VW is Audi

TIL #2

Jag and BMW btdt. Jag had zero success thanks to parent company Ford at the time. BMW had had a lot of success previously, but I bet the current investment is just too much.

OK, but now Jaguar is free of the Ford stumble baby. Is there nationalist hype/pride for Jaguar, like Ferrari's, or are they just a laugh line from Austin Powers now? I mean FFS Jaguar and '60s England is a helluva mood for the rest of the world.

In the end, for real teams, the current teams gets to decide who gets to play- and given some recent history, that’s kind of fair. USF1 got a place, made a big deal, and never turned a wheel.

I assume the big US manufacturers don't see an upside for F1 because with their balls deep commitment to the herpa-derps it would foul the branding?

Has Chevy ever had a successful open wheel racing vehicle? I could bring myself to root for an F1 Corvette (although cherry red is taken).

 

[MichVandal]

This was essentially Ford's team. They just happen to name it Jaguar for marketing reasons, mainly for Europe. Similar to Renault naming their team Alpine.

Yes, Ford screwed it up, but it wasn't because of the name. It was because of good ole large American bureaucracy. Similar reasons why Toyota's F1 effort was a complete disaster.

I’ll forgive you on the Alfa thing, kep must not remember who I was.

If it were actually Jag at the time, they would have failed even worse- my career was with F and fully understand how we screwed the pooch in F1, but at that same time, Jag was an order of magnitude worse- horrible to work with. Thankfully by the time Aston Martin went racing (with the v12 we developed for them) they were able to not have corporate daddy too close. And I hate what stroll has brought to the name.

Anyway, seeing who is interested in 2026 rules kind of tells me who does not want to pass the CO2 buck on down the line. Hybrids are a great thing, and the F1 trends can actually be brought to production.