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Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

Felt bad for Lewis today. Great chance for a win to continue his streak, and a great start by him and Russell that was eliminated by the lap 1 wreck. Then he and Verstappen collide and he gets sent to the middle of the pack where he more or less held serve with Russell after that, outside of the first few laps on mediums when he gained like six seconds on the leaders.
 
Why did Checo crash deliberately in quali at Monaco?

By now, the effects of that are well in the past. max will have plenty of years to win Monaco. So to hold onto that and perhaps cost your teammate 2nd place in the WC and all the prize money that goes with it....

(I didn't see it, so I don't even know what happened at Monaco)

Checo has sacrificed his race more than once for max, so he's at least earned it.

Given the turn over at RBR since max came on board, it sure seems that he's a very hard person to be a teammate with.
 
By now, the effects of that are well in the past. max will have plenty of years to win Monaco. So to hold onto that and perhaps cost your teammate 2nd place in the WC and all the prize money that goes with it....

I'm assuming you know by the way you wrote it, not a single dollar is paid out for the driver's standings. :-)
 
I'm assuming you know by the way you wrote it, not a single dollar is paid out for the driver's standings. :-)

I know now. I kind of wish it were, since keeping Perez down like that would have more than a personal impact. Although, it's possible that Perez had some contract money that went with his finish. For sure, he's getting money to help max, otherwise he would not be that willing to do it.
 
So how do you hold your job if you intentionally crash a multi million $ car?

it’s one thing when racing for a corner (as Ayrton Senna told Jackie Stewart), but to crash your car in qualifying so a teammate doesn’t place ahead on the grid? That’s really stupid.

on another note….can someone explain why Piquet Jr. was ousted from F1? I don’t recall the circumstances.
 
Also…team orders should be discontinued. It’s a silly gambit in that it’s incredibly rare to have a teammate who is consistently .5 behind the lead driver. If and when that’s the case, get a new #2 to push the lead driver and team. As George Russell is proving, there is no shortage of guys coming up who can race at the front with the proper equipment.
 
So how do you hold your job if you intentionally crash a multi million $ car?

it’s one thing when racing for a corner (as Ayrton Senna told Jackie Stewart), but to crash your car in qualifying so a teammate doesn’t place ahead on the grid? That’s really stupid.

on another note….can someone explain why Piquet Jr. was ousted from F1? I don’t recall the circumstances.

Well, that's an argument that Perez didn't do it intentionally. When Mike did it many years ago, he just barely stuffed it into the wall without damage to the car. I just can't see Checo doing that- maybe he did, but he's also paid it back more than once by giving max points. But there was a decent amount of damage to the car that needed fixed, from the pictures I saw- not overnight work, but at least a few hundred thousand dollars of wings.

Piquet was ousted because he was slow. And after he got sacked, he spilled the bean on his intentional crash to help Alonso- so I'm sure he knew his F1 time was up.
 
Also…team orders should be discontinued. It’s a silly gambit in that it’s incredibly rare to have a teammate who is consistently .5 behind the lead driver. If and when that’s the case, get a new #2 to push the lead driver and team. As George Eissell is proving, there is no shortage of guys coming up who can race at the front with the proper equipment.

And they tried that already. Didn't work. When Vettel didn't let Weber by, that was no team orders era- even though Red Bull was overtly not following that rule.

Red Bull has been the worst team when it comes to team orders- it has been either Vettel or Max and nobody else. It's not all that shocking they have been a revolving door for the other driver. While Merc and Ferrari have done team orders, they are infrequent enough that the other driver stays for a long time. (and I'm very much not including pre Schumi era).
 
I am very surprised guys under contract to be teammates in future seasons would do this. Not just because of professional etiquette and team solidarity, but because they depend on each other out on the track and their relationship also puts strain on all the people who support them from mechanics and strategists to public relations and principals. I can't see even the world's worst diva getting away with that without the team going absolutely nuclear on them, for all the reasons people have listed on this thread.

Is it really just a matter of rich, pretty 20-somethings having the runaway ego and self-defeating irresponsibility of celebrities or Republicans?
 
Well, that's an argument that Perez didn't do it intentionally. When Mike did it many years ago, he just barely stuffed it into the wall without damage to the car. I just can't see Checo doing that- maybe he did, but he's also paid it back more than once by giving max points. But there was a decent amount of damage to the car that needed fixed, from the pictures I saw- not overnight work, but at least a few hundred thousand dollars of wings.

Piquet was ousted because he was slow. And after he got sacked, he spilled the bean on his intentional crash to help Alonso- so I'm sure he knew his F1 time was up.

Thanks!!!
 
And they tried that already. Didn't work. When Vettel didn't let Weber by, that was no team orders era- even though Red Bull was overtly not following that rule.

Red Bull has been the worst team when it comes to team orders- it has been either Vettel or Max and nobody else. It's not all that shocking they have been a revolving door for the other driver. While Merc and Ferrari have done team orders, they are infrequent enough that the other driver stays for a long time. (and I'm very much not including pre Schumi era).

Agreed RBR is the worst on this topic. With hindsight it appears to me Vettel was a vastly overrated driver. Possibly he was better than Weber but I think he was provided superior equipment.
 
Is it really just a matter of rich, pretty 20-somethings having the runaway ego and self-defeating irresponsibility of celebrities or Republicans?

Every once in a while, it's not. Say like Sir Lewis Hamilton. He got found as a kart driver when his dad did the best he could with very used parts, and was signed to the McLaren young driver program at 13. Talk about coming from a modest background with more reasons than that to hold him back. And now he's the GOAT.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other, but there are more rich 20 yo's than not, by a massive, massive margin. Dad's love to spend their billions on their kid's driving career. Some even buy a team as a toy for the kid (how else is Stroll still in F1- the guy is a terrible driver).

Although Max gets special note, his dad Jos, was a terrible person. And he carried that into being a umbrella dad. Which has very, very much carried over to max. He almost killed a guy in a karting assault, and has been charged with assaulting his wife as well as attempted murder driving a car into a girlfriend. Kind of the opposite to the Hamilton family.
 
Piquet was ousted because he was slow. And after he got sacked, he spilled the bean on his intentional crash to help Alonso- so I'm sure he knew his F1 time was up.

And when Junior was going to be let go, Senior threatened Briatore that he was going to spill the beans on Singapore if they fired his son. And he did...
 
And they tried that already. Didn't work. When Vettel didn't let Weber by, that was no team orders era- even though Red Bull was overtly not following that rule.

Red Bull has been the worst team when it comes to team orders- it has been either Vettel or Max and nobody else. It's not all that shocking they have been a revolving door for the other driver. While Merc and Ferrari have done team orders, they are infrequent enough that the other driver stays for a long time. (and I'm very much not including pre Schumi era).

I would argue Ferrari was worse on team orders than Red Bull, especially back in the Schumacher era. It was just more subtle.

Speaking of Ferrari and illegal team orders -- my favorite one was when Ferrari told Massa, "Fernando is faster than you. Do. You. Understand?"

That was the moment the FIA realized it was impossible to police the outlawing of team orders...
 
I am very surprised guys under contract to be teammates in future seasons would do this. Not just because of professional etiquette and team solidarity, but because they depend on each other out on the track and their relationship also puts strain on all the people who support them from mechanics and strategists to public relations and principals. I can't see even the world's worst diva getting away with that without the team going absolutely nuclear on them, for all the reasons people have listed on this thread.

Is it really just a matter of rich, pretty 20-somethings having the runaway ego and self-defeating irresponsibility of celebrities or Republicans?

Auto racing, and particularly F1, always has had this interesting dichotomy of individual sport vs. team sport.

What you state is true but so is the desire of these Type A hugely successful athletes wanting to be a world champion. Everyone remembers that, not which team won the title. Plus, rule number one in racing is beat your teammate. Because that is the only apples vs. apples comparison you can ever have since all the other teams are so different, and again in F1 have completely different cars. So, the only way you can truly be measured is how you did against your teammate. Thus, by default, it automatically creates discord between teammates.

Think QB or goaltending controversies that occur. Sometimes, the athletes think team first and don't make waves. Other times, they think about themselves first and cause the team's harmony to be wrecked.

F1 has a long history of teammate controversies. Look up Senna vs. Prost when they were teammates. Heck, they crashed on purpose in the final race in Japan to decide the championship. Look at Hamilton purposely backing up Rosberg hoping someone else would pass him to take away crucial points that would have given the title to Hamilton at Abu Dhabi despite the team telling Lewis to absolutely stop it. Multi-21 between Vettel and Webber. Alonso staying in the pits to screw Hamilton from getting new tires in time during qualifying when they were at McLaren.

Once, when Bernie Ecclestone owned Brabham, in the last race of the season, he told the second driver to move over if necessary to let Piquet by since he was fighting for a title. The second driver said he absolutely won't do that. Bernie said, "So, we made sure it wasn't a problem. We didn't give him enough fuel to finish the race."

Enzo Ferrari loved to pit his drivers against each other to "motivate" them. Some say that was the reason which caused Wolfgang von Trips, under intense pressure, to fatally crash at Monza handing the championship to his teammate Phil Hill in 1961. (Ironically, Hill and von Trips got along just fine.)

Then, there are the times teammates are told to support the other driver with the promise it will be their year the next season. Many argue Ronnie Peterson was a better driver than Mario Andretti, but Peterson duly supported Andretti to the title in 1978 as asked, because he was told it would be his year to go for it the next season. Sadly, Peterson died at the end of that season.*

Gilles Villeneuve also played the dutiful teammate, supporting Jody Scheckter who won the title in 1979. Again, Gilles sadly never had a chance to have his turn, as Ferrari took a downturn and then he was killed in 1982.

* - The stories of the only two Americans to win the World Championship are tragically coincidental. As the season wound down, the only drivers who had a mathematical chance of beating them were their teammates. In both cases, their teammates were killed, clinching the title for the Americans. Both fatal crashes were at Monza.
 
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