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Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

manurespreader said:
I wonder if we don't have too many Formula Classes and if F 2 isn't too close in speed to F1 without corresponding safety stuff. I mean an F1000 car is blazingly fast. And we have F3 and then F2 and FE and FC, and FAtlantic, etc. Maybe F 2 ought to be somewhat slower than 170 mph cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71swR2GsWLY
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CB did a good analysis- even though I don't have any actual views of what happened- but the part where he pointed out that the crush structures are only designed to crush once- one should even consider if an F1 car or an Indy car would have been able to do any better- since they have similar crush structures. Especially where he properly pointed out that we really don't know (yet) where the fatal part of the crash happened. Once we know that, then we can rethink the various formulae.

But an important consideration based on your FF50 post- eventually those engines are going to go away. What do you replace them with? Virtually every single engine you can get makes more power than an 1600 Ford engine- by a considerable amount. Which then puts this class into the exact same consideration on safety- given the double of available power (likely- just guessing). FV is in the same position.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

alfablue said:
CB did a good analysis- even though I don't have any actual views of what happened- but the part where he pointed out that the crush structures are only designed to crush once- one should even consider if an F1 car or an Indy car would have been able to do any better- since they have similar crush structures. Especially where he properly pointed out that we really don't know (yet) where the fatal part of the crash happened. Once we know that, then we can rethink the various formulae.

But an important consideration based on your FF50 post- eventually those engines are going to go away. What do you replace them with? Virtually every single engine you can get makes more power than an 1600 Ford engine- by a considerable amount. Which then puts this class into the exact same consideration on safety- given the double of available power (likely- just guessing). FV is in the same position.
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Not quite but almost.. FV is going to F First which uses a similar but more modern engine. Though it's not setting the world on fire, It is more available. Ford racing has been producing new 711 blocks for some time and there are plenty of them.They even fixed all the known weak spots. All the other parts are no problem. SCCA FF, or F 1600 if you like, now mostly use a Honda fit engine which is supposed to be more reliable but isn't and is more expensive but with longer service intervals. They get relatively few entrants even in the pro series events. There are a number of tube frame chassis classes with more power than a FF kent,( FC) but you really want to go over 128 mph in a tube frame car? FAtlantic uses a HART BDD twin cam, or what used to go in a European Cortina rallye car.
 
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Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

So just my opinion but LeClerc would have been penalized at any other track but Monza for those actions.

And the organizers need to be more careful putting curbing outside of parabolica like that.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

manurespreader said:
So just my opinion but LeClerc would have been penalized at any other track but Monza for those actions.
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The thing is, I don't think Hamilton would have been able to stay in front of Leclerc the whole race. With Ferrari's superior straight line speed coupled with the DRS, I don't see Hamilton being able to defend. Plus, Hamilton was on mediums while Leclerc was on hards, so Leclerc could also be patient and just wait for Hamilton's tires to go off and then do the "flyby."

It was an unnecessary risk of crashing or being penalized for Leclerc to defend so aggressively.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Russell Jaslow said:
The thing is, I don't think Hamilton would have been able to stay in front of Leclerc the whole race. With Ferrari's superior straight line speed coupled with the DRS, I don't see Hamilton being able to defend. Plus, Hamilton was on mediums while Leclerc was on hards, so Leclerc could also be patient and just wait for Hamilton's tires to go off and then do the "flyby."

It was an unnecessary risk of crashing or being penalized for Leclerc to defend so aggressively.
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Ignoring the problem with the tire wear- I'm really not sure of that. As I saw the lap segments, if Hamilton could have passed in the first sector, it seems possible that he could have gotten enough time on LeCerc so that he would not be in DRS range before Parabolica. Especially medium vs. hard tires. And had he got by early, perhaps he could have preserved his tires... maybe.

But that was Mercedes only real strategy for the race.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

alfablue said:
Ignoring the problem with the tire wear- I'm really not sure of that. As I saw the lap segments, if Hamilton could have passed in the first sector, it seems possible that he could have gotten enough time on LeCerc so that he would not be in DRS range before Parabolica. Especially medium vs. hard tires. And had he got by early, perhaps he could have preserved his tires... maybe.

But that was Mercedes only real strategy for the race.
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Here's another one I don't get. At the beginning of the year Williams says they lack downforce, now they have too much drag. So which is it, Too much downforce or not enough?
 
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Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

manurespreader said:
Here's another one I don't get. At the beginning of the year Willimas says they lack downforce, now they have too much drag. So which is it, Too much downforce or not enough?
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Both- you can get very inefficient downforce that causes more drag than downforce. They can't get it high enough to go around the twisty bits, and even that is so inefficient that it is big drag.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

alfablue said:
Odd news of the day- Haas is keeping their drivers for 2020- https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...agnussen-for-2020.27XawMbSgrB2JLs2Z2Z6qP.html
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Yeah, I can't figure that out.

The only thing I can think of is they couldn't work out a deal with Hulkenberg. Anyone else wouldn't be worth getting considering the car has been more of a problem than the drivers, so you better have experienced drivers to help sort out the car, and thus Grosjean and Magnussen are the best options out there right now.

Also read Kubica will not be returning to Williams. I expect Nicholas Latifi to buy ... ummm ... "get" that seat.

That essentially only leaves the question of whether Giovinazzi returns or not. That seat is essentially a Ferrari seat, so it all depends what they want to do with it. He would be the only Italian in their lineup, so maybe he gets a reprieve. Ferrari has no one in their academy capable of moving up (and yes, that includes Mick Schumacher).

Oh, and of course the Red Bull/Toro Rosso lineups for next year.
 
Good heavens. Just when you thought Ferrari couldn’t find a new way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, they manage to find it.

At least it added some interest to the race. Please move this race to St. Petersburg. I have no idea what the track will be like, but it’s got to be better than Sochi.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Russell Jaslow said:
Good heavens. Just when you thought Ferrari couldn’t find a new way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, they manage to find it.

At least it added some interest to the race. Please move this race to St. Petersburg. I have no idea what the track will be like, but it’s got to be better than Sochi.
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Amen!
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Since this is an open wheel racing thread in general- there's a new open wheel racing down under, which is kind of a modern F5000- https://www.s5000.com.au/

They use an existing chassis, a crate Coyote 5.0l, some modification, and done. There's a youtube channel for it, so if you want to check the videos out- they look interesting. And they had the first race this past weekend.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

F1 news- Thanks to a typhoon, all of Saturday's F1 events have been canceled. Qualifying will be held Sunday morning.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Thanks to a very, very bad start for Seb and a collision by LeClerc, Mercedes wrapped up both the constructors and drivers's WC's yesterday. Now we see if Hamilton can fully wrap up his 6th.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Pato O’Ward released by Red Bull and he appears to be a front runner for a seat at McLaren Indycar.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Some updates- Toro Rosso will change their name to Alpha Tauri- the fashion arm of Red Bull.

And Renault was removed from the results of the Japanese Grand Prix for illegal brakes.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

alfablue said:
Some updates- Toro Rosso will change their name to Alpha Tauri- the fashion arm of Red Bull.
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I don't think this is a sure thing yet. In fact, the last I read, they are having second thoughts about the rename.

And Renault was removed from the results of the Japanese Grand Prix for illegal brakes.
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They are lucky they weren't disqualified from the entire season.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Russell Jaslow said:
I don't think this is a sure thing yet. In fact, the last I read, they are having second thoughts about the rename.



They are lucky they weren't disqualified from the entire season.
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They, of course, say they did nothing wrong. I think Riccardo must be second-guessing his choice of last year.

I was hoping that at some point in the year Williams would be competitive but honestly, I think they are further away than they were a month ago and now it comes out that they have brake problems which mean the drivers are hesitant to brake as deeply as they might otherwise. And in F1 the brakes are a lot of the reason the cars are so fast. I believe the average deceleration rates are over 3 G's.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

manurespreader said:
They, of course, say they did nothing wrong. I think Riccardo must be second-guessing his choice of last year.

I was hoping that at some point in the year Williams would be competitive but honestly, I think they are further away than they were a month ago and now it comes out that they have brake problems which mean the drivers are hesitant to brake as deeply as they might otherwise. And in F1 the brakes are a lot of the reason the cars are so fast. I believe the average deceleration rates are over 3 G's.
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It is helpful to Williams that Haas is backing into their performance window.... which is really sad considering how they started the season.
 
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