Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think the real lesson to be gained from Motegi is how slow the cars looked! They looked like they had the speed of a lawn mower. Ugh. I think by now we all expect some screw-up/inconsistency from BB so I wasn't surprised at that. But dang those cars on that huge track looked awful. If was almost un-watchable. I really, really hope the new engines have enough HP to make street/road racing more interesting.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think by now we all expect some screw-up/inconsistency from BB so I wasn't surprised at that.

The thing is this: Everytime BB has a chance to demonstrate he IS capable of being consistant, he totally blows it. How can you on more than 1 occasion make what Dario did a drive-thru penalty under green, but then inexplicably change the penalty to the end of the line for the same infraction? I was impressed even the tv guys were hammering BB on that.

And these yellow flags for a car in the sand are BS. Have a local yellow and be done with it. There is no reason for a full course yellow.

I'm a Penske guy, but Helio clearly passed at a local yellow, he needs to shut-up.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think the real lesson to be gained from Motegi is how slow the cars looked! They looked like they had the speed of a lawn mower. Ugh. I think by now we all expect some screw-up/inconsistency from BB so I wasn't surprised at that. But dang those cars on that huge track looked awful. If was almost un-watchable. I really, really hope the new engines have enough HP to make street/road racing more interesting.

I saw a quote about how much quicker the new car is expected to be but I forgot where it was, I'll dig it up.

the engine didn't sound that much higher in pitch...unfortunately

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

The thing is this: Everytime BB has a chance to demonstrate he IS capable of being consistant, he totally blows it. How can you on more than 1 occasion make what Dario did a drive-thru penalty under green, but then inexplicably change the penalty to the end of the line for the same infraction? I was impressed even the tv guys were hammering BB on that.

And these yellow flags for a car in the sand are BS. Have a local yellow and be done with it. There is no reason for a full course yellow.

I'm a Penske guy, but Helio clearly passed at a local yellow, he needs to shut-up.

See the thing is I don't think BB is capable so I just expect inconsistency and stupid made up rules to be the norm.

I totally agree about Helio. He was in the wrong and need to keep his trap shut on this one.

I saw a quote about how much quicker the new car is expected to be but I forgot where it was, I'll dig it up.

the engine didn't sound that much higher in pitch...unfortunately

I thought I read that too. I certainly hope Cotman saw a tv replay of the race and noticed how slow the cars looked. If the new ones are anything like these dogs then they might as well keep the old ones. There is no way any race series can gain fans when the cars look slower than rush hour traffic.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I didn't realize the Formula Nippon cars had faster lap than the IRL. Yuck.

Also, the start are re-starts were HORRIFIC! Even my wife, who is a very casual fan, noticed the start was bad.

As far as BB goes, I understand that we'll never get anything close to consistancy out of that turd, but that kind of BS just makes my head want to explode. I can't stand inconsistant rule enforcement in the home, workplace or in sports. It drives me nuts. RB needs to make a move in the offseason. Last year blows top the head were cracked down on in college hockey. There was an instance where a UW player got a blow, I think an elbow, to the mask of his helmet and no call was made. Later on Mike Eaves said the ref told him the hit was to his face and not is head. ***? This sort of total lunacy along with BB just makes me want to jump in front of traffic somewhere.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I noticed that the tone of this week's Miller's Mailbag was now to start, and IMO rightfully so, blaming Randy for keeping BB around and continuing to let him make a mockery of Indycar.

I feel like as an Indycar fan that I am being jerked around way too much these past couple of seasons. As I have said before for every one good move the series takes they then go ahead and make a bad one. I just wonder how much more die hard fans like us can take. And forget bringing in new or casual fans. If fans like us are fed up there is no chance to gain new/more fans. Ugh. I think Randy absolutely must get rid of BB, make sure there new cars are fast and competitive, and the racing is great otherwise I think he will be fired and the series will continue to slowly die back under TG's control. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if BB is making these calls just to screw up Indycar even more so that Randy gets fired and his good buddy TG will be put back in charge.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I noticed that the tone of this week's Miller's Mailbag was now to start, and IMO rightfully so, blaming Randy for keeping BB around and continuing to let him make a mockery of Indycar.

I feel like as an Indycar fan that I am being jerked around way too much these past couple of seasons. As I have said before for every one good move the series takes they then go ahead and make a bad one. I just wonder how much more die hard fans like us can take. And forget bringing in new or casual fans. If fans like us are fed up there is no chance to gain new/more fans. Ugh. I think Randy absolutely must get rid of BB, make sure there new cars are fast and competitive, and the racing is great otherwise I think he will be fired and the series will continue to slowly die back under TG's control. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if BB is making these calls just to screw up Indycar even more so that Randy gets fired and his good buddy TG will be put back in charge.

...the speculation that BB is trying to screw up the series to get TG back is something I've not thought of previously.

but...wow

But when I think about it how delusional would Brian and Tony have to be to WANT this? destroying Indycar to the point where you barely get 5 second replays on espn, no fans at races anywhere outside Indy, Iowa and maybe texas... that's all TG.

if you saw the new hampshire race, you saw a quick flashback to past races. the races that were packed to the rafters were all pre-split...I hope the **** TG isn't thinking about regaining control. Even if I agreed with his ideas if you listen to him talk he comes across as just dumb. just plain dumb

as for Formula Nippon cars being faster, that better be rectified ASAP!

I still have hope Randy Bernard will listen to Robin Miller and chop BB out of Indycar, and I'd go so far as to say he has to entirely from the series, no job here goodbye. He's got to cut ties to everything Tony G.

bring on cotman for race control.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

as for Formula Nippon cars being faster, that better be rectified ASAP!

Why is it taken as a given that Indycars must be faster? FN is also open-wheel and uses similar power plants to Indycar (past and possibly present using the same engine block specifications as 2005 IRL).

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Why is it taken as a given that Indycars must be faster? FN is also open-wheel and uses similar power plants to Indycar (past and possibly present using the same engine block specifications as 2005 IRL).

In my mind it is because overall Indycar drivers are considered to be a better, more talented group and thus should be driving faster cars.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

What a snooze-fest yesterday's Singapore GP was. The RB7 and Vettel are so far better than anyone else.

Hey, Alfa, what is up with you guy Hamilton?? Another race and another incident. Seems like a pattern is developing here. Hmmm. Seriously I think it was a racing incident and was kind of surprised by the Stewards action.

And as much as I hate to admit it as he is my favorite driver, but I am willing to bet that Massa is going to be looking for a new ride next season. Getting hit by Hamilton and then being screwed up on pit strategy by the SC didn't help his efforts, but getting lapped is inexcusable. I wouldn't be surprised if people in Maranello are not calling for his head this morning. They only excuse I can see is if Ferrari were testing 2012 parts on his car during the race as I read they were doing in Friday's free practice.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

What a snooze-fest yesterday's Singapore GP was. The RB7 and Vettel are so far better than anyone else.

Hey, Alfa, what is up with you guy Hamilton?? Another race and another incident. Seems like a pattern is developing here. Hmmm. Seriously I think it was a racing incident and was kind of surprised by the Stewards action.

And as much as I hate to admit it as he is my favorite driver, but I am willing to bet that Massa is going to be looking for a new ride next season. Getting hit by Hamilton and then being screwed up on pit strategy by the SC didn't help his efforts, but getting lapped is inexcusable. I wouldn't be surprised if people in Maranello are not calling for his head this morning. They only excuse I can see is if Ferrari were testing 2012 parts on his car during the race as I read they were doing in Friday's free practice.

I missed the incident- didn't get back from vacation until lap 20 or so for the replay. And for some reason, they never replayed it, just had a lot of "bonehead move" comments.

But put that incident together with where he finished- and knowing that Vettel is going to win- he must be figuring that he'll make the race interesting for the crowd, since the winner makes it incredibly boring.

Hopefully, he'll pull his head out, as I'm still a big fan of his actual driving. I'm still mad that I flew all the way to Italy to see him crash out 3 turns into the race last year....

But- what's up with Masa? getting LAPPED? Holy cow.

On a similar note- I really hate how they do restarts in F1. IIRC, Masa was pretty close to the rear end of the train, which basically lost 4 seconds to Vettel even before getting the green flag thanks to the FAR back markers sleeping at the restart. If they are going to bunch them up, put the cars a lap down in the back- IMHO, that cause more gapping than if there wasn't even a safety car for a few of the drivers.

No need to comment on Mikey.

But Button is making me more of a fan of his every single race. He's as fast as Lewis, and can preserve his tires. Amazing.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I missed the incident- didn't get back from vacation until lap 20 or so for the replay. And for some reason, they never replayed it, just had a lot of "bonehead move" comments.

But put that incident together with where he finished- and knowing that Vettel is going to win- he must be figuring that he'll make the race interesting for the crowd, since the winner makes it incredibly boring.

Hopefully, he'll pull his head out, as I'm still a big fan of his actual driving. I'm still mad that I flew all the way to Italy to see him crash out 3 turns into the race last year....

But- what's up with Masa? getting LAPPED? Holy cow.

On a similar note- I really hate how they do restarts in F1. IIRC, Masa was pretty close to the rear end of the train, which basically lost 4 seconds to Vettel even before getting the green flag thanks to the FAR back markers sleeping at the restart. If they are going to bunch them up, put the cars a lap down in the back- IMHO, that cause more gapping than if there wasn't even a safety car for a few of the drivers.

No need to comment on Mikey.

But Button is making me more of a fan of his every single race. He's as fast as Lewis, and can preserve his tires. Amazing.

Like I wrote, Massa is going to be in trouble for getting lapped. Sad day for him and Ferrari. Oh and on a good note (ha!) for Ferrari does their car look awesome under the lights a Singapore or what?!!?!?!

Hamilton was trying one of his signature over-optimistic overtake moves and ran into the back of Massa. Nothing like trying to win the race on lap 10 or whatever it was. Typical Hamilton.

I totally agree about the stupid SC restarts. The FIA needs to look at how that is done and put lapped back markers in the rear where they belong.

Button is super smooth. For whatever reason, I think Button's driving style fits the McLaren car design very well. Probably more so than it does Hamilton. I have felt that Button got stuck on crappy team with Honda and never got to show his stuff until he went to Brawn and now McLaren.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Massa....he needs to go. He's slower than RB's and McCl's #2 drivers, so he does Alonso no help at all.

Qualifying was interesting because at least the first 5 rows were teamates side by side, showing it's more about the car than the driver, at least in qualifying.

I too have been impressed with Button. It seems like after we labelled him one of the most underwhelming champions, he's turned up the wick.

F1 restarts are just as big a joke as the IRL's.

The Singapore track is just way too wide, the cars look so small on it. And with no long straights, a snoozefest. I'm sure it brought in a zillion dollars into Bernie's coffers, so all is good.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

And with no long straights, a snoozefest.

It may be different with formula cars, but in my experience, the key to interesting racing isn't long straights (those just produce drag races where power is king), it's turns with multiple fast lines through them that give a slower car that turns better a real chance to pass a car that's faster in a straight line. It's best if the turns with multiple fast lines don't come off of a long straight, so that the slower, handling-advantaged cars are still close enough to the faster, handling-disadvantaged cars to make a move through said turns.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I missed the F1 race but cannot say I'm surprised at the outcome. It would be nice if Weber could challenge his teammate but he either is getting very screwed on updates and new parts or he's just that much slower.

Any word on who would replace Massa and/or Webber at their respective positions?

Would Bruno Senna have a shot? he's consistently out-qualifying Petrov and placing better in races.

Saw the Senna movie yesterday, it is in one word Excellent.

I'd forgotten about that horrific Martin Donnelly accident.

one thing I'd say about Senna/Prost, it's a shame really that Prost chose to tailor his contract to exclude Senna at Williams. in the end he had to retire because Senna was coming to Williams. it's not like Williams would favor one driver over the other I think they run their team more like Mclaren that way.

The movie could have benefited (IMO) by including the footage of Senna leaping out of his car to aid an injured driver, and also his donington race in 93 showing re-affirming he was the master in the rain.

Indycar

thoughts on Jean Alesi doing the Indy 500? I think it's actually a bit dangerous. he's 47? I don't want to see this end like Nelson Piquet did.

the 2012 car is testing at Indy this week. We should have some youtube clips soon. I hope to hear the engine sound clearly and to see lap times

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

It may be different with formula cars, but in my experience, the key to interesting racing isn't long straights (those just produce drag races where power is king), it's turns with multiple fast lines through them that give a slower car that turns better a real chance to pass a car that's faster in a straight line. It's best if the turns with multiple fast lines don't come off of a long straight, so that the slower, handling-advantaged cars are still close enough to the faster, handling-disadvantaged cars to make a move through said turns.

I believe that good tracks have a mix of both fast sections and handling sections. That way there isn't an clear cut advantage to low downforce or good handling. It forces driver and car to have a good mix of both. A good place to out-brake other cars is also a plus.

Any word on who would replace Massa and/or Webber at their respective positions?

Would Bruno Senna have a shot? he's consistently out-qualifying Petrov and placing better in races.

Both Massa and Weber have contracts for next season at their respective teams. Weber just sign his extension a month or so ago, so I would guess he for certain isn't going anywhere. 2012 season is the last season on Massa's current contract. I wouldn't be shocked to see him get put aside next season, but I am not sure whom it would be for. I doubt it would be Senna, but he has shown very good pace in the Renault and I wouldn't be shocked to see him back there next season. Either as a replacement for Kubica (whom I seriously doubt will be back there) or Petrov if Kubica returns.

Indycar

thoughts on Jean Alesi doing the Indy 500? I think it's actually a bit dangerous. he's 47? I don't want to see this end like Nelson Piquet did.

the 2012 car is testing at Indy this week. We should have some youtube clips soon. I hope to hear the engine sound clearly and to see lap times

I was surprised to read about Alesi. I am putting this into the "believe it when I see it" category.

Isn't the new test car still running the old engine? Or am I wrong on that? I had thought that none of the engine manufacturers had their engine designs completed.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I believe that good tracks have a mix of both fast sections and handling sections. That way there isn't an clear cut advantage to low downforce or good handling. It forces driver and car to have a good mix of both. A good place to out-brake other cars is also a plus.

I agree with this. And I don't think there's necessarily one ideal mix of handling vs. speed, but a good track will stress both in different places.

A good track will also have some variety in the kinds of overtaking it supports, in my view, though my direct experience (as previously noted) my be a sufficiently different environment as to not really be applicable to professional formula-type series with only marginal performance differences between the contenders.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Isn't the new test car still running the old engine? Or am I wrong on that? I had thought that none of the engine manufacturers had their engine designs completed.

I was wrong the new test car is running the new V-6 Turbo Honda engine.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

the 2012 car is testing at Indy this week. We should have some youtube clips soon. I hope to hear the engine sound clearly and to see lap times

The engine can be heard for a short time in the video clip on Speed's website: Dallara Testing at Indy

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

The engine can be heard for a short time in the video clip on Speed's website: Dallara Testing at Indy

thanks....not enough to really know yet...

from the back, the car looks like a bat-mobile

however from other angles I don't know... don't like the fenders in back, and am starting to not like the side pods

what was so wrong w/the way the cars looked in 1995? or if they were going to experiment the Honda concept car was awesome