Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

[Timothy A]

I don’t see an upside causing OSU and WI to play each other. For WI it can only put their current ranking at risk and whomever would travel for the game exponentially increases their chance of someone getting COVID.

The upside is the players deserve to play as many games as they can and if both teams keep using the right protocols, covid is not a problem.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

The upside is the players deserve to play as many games as they can and if both teams keep using the right protocols, covid is not a problem.

I don't think covid has been a problem from day 1.
Yes, a number of players from our programs had it, but in trying to research it online I can't turn up one college hockey player man or woman who has suffered complications from covid. My searching isn't 100 percent accurate but if someone else knows of any cases that I haven't found of college hockey players that haven't recovered from covid 100% I'd like to hear about it.

 

[pgb-ohio]

I don't think covid has been a problem from day 1.

This is fallacious thinking. I'll illustrate with an example:

When owning an automobile, both your manufacturer & mechanic will provide you with a recommended maintenance program. This list is long. Everything from oil changes to brake service to replacing tires. Following all of the recommendations is expensive and inconvenient. Some of the recommendations are vitally important; others are made out of an abundance of caution. With the latter, you can probably cut some corners & still be safe.

Now, imagine a customer who follows the program for a period of years. Then one day he comes into the repair shop quite agitated, stating: "This has been a good car from Day 1. Never had a breakdown. All those dollars I spent on parts & maintenance? A total waste of money."

The problem with this thinking is obvious.

Similarly, the covid precautions & protocols have been expensive & inconvenient. Some of them may eventually prove to be overly cautious. But the idea of just diving into this season with no precautions at all? No thanks.

Yes, a number of players from our programs had it, but in trying to research it online I can't turn up one college hockey player man or woman who has suffered complications from covid. My searching isn't 100 percent accurate but if someone else knows of any cases that I haven't found of college hockey players that haven't recovered from covid 100% I'd like to hear about it.

Well, your instinct that research is needed to answer this question is a good one. I commend you for that. But here the problem is that the necessary information isn't being made public by the universities. Privacy for the student athlete is cited as as the reason. Whether such secrecy is legally required can be debated. But everyone is operating under the assumption that it is.

As an example, our Men's team recently had a series with Penn State cancelled. All we were told was that there was a covid issue with "Tier 1 Personnel" at PSU. So we don't know if there was an outbreak that was limited to staff, or every player on the team tested positive. Or anything in between.

We also don't know if everyone who tested positive was asymptomic. Or if some were mildly ill. Or if some were seriously ill. Eventually researchers will be given access to such information, with names & other identifying information redacted. But for now, the information just isn't available.

I'll grant you that if a player literally died from covid, we'd almost certainly hear about it. Family and those close to the player would likely seek support of the hockey community. If a player had to be placed on a ventilator, same thing.

But those aren't the only relevant concerns. Long term consequences of covid infections are simply unknown at this point. The fact an infected player returns to health is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't prove she's 100% in the clear for the future. Also, limiting the spread of the virus is no small concern. The players aren't Frankensteins created in laboratories. The have families. Some have family members in high risk groups. To say nothing of all the people they'll come into contact with in their everyday lives.

I am glad we've had a partial season. But again, I'm just as glad that we didn't throw caution to the winds.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Mr.PGB, my respect for you here on forum is always pretty high and I don't have time to fully counterpoint in the detail I'd like but as far as medical confidentiality it is required that an INDIVIDUAL students medical info be private but there are no rules against reporting how many players or what teams have had covid as long as names are not used. I have seen own members of my family with covid and one was elderly with a heart condition, another my son. Empirical observation has shown the young and healthy without underlying conditions have come through it fine. You and I are of the agree to disagree mindset on this one but unless there is evidence that there have been deaths or long term complications among the MANY MANY student athletes that have had it then the seriousness TO THIS PARTICULAR GROUP meaning student athletes has been greatly overblown. I think we've dealt with covid long enough now that my points are self evident compared to the unknowns and concerns when we first had to shut everything down at the onset because we didn't know what to expect. Prove me wrong.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Mr.PGB, my respect for you here on forum is always pretty high and I don't have time to fully counterpoint in the detail I'd like but as far as medical confidentiality it is required that an INDIVIDUAL students medical info be private but there are no rules against reporting how many players or what teams have had covid as long as names are not used.

I was describing the reality of the situation -- the information that members of the public are actually receiving. I wouldn't dispute that the powers-that-be are being more cautious than the law requires.

I have seen own members of my family with covid and one was elderly with a heart condition, another my son. Empirical observation has shown the young and healthy without underlying conditions have come through it fine. You and I are of the agree to disagree mindset on this one but unless there is evidence that there have been deaths or long term complications among the MANY MANY student athletes that have had it then the seriousness TO THIS PARTICULAR GROUP meaning student athletes has been greatly overblown. I think we've dealt with covid long enough now that my points are self evident compared to the unknowns and concerns when we first had to shut everything down at the onset because we didn't know what to expect. Prove me wrong.

Agree to Disagree is clearly the way go. I would need another lengthy post just to reply to this one paragraph. For no useful purpose. Neither of us is going to budge.

Part of the motivation for my original post was to make it clear that individual Buckeyes can & do disagree on this. That has been accomplished. From there, each of us has staked out a position in a reasonably respectful way. Also a good thing.

There's really just one loose end that needs to be addressed. In this case, "Prove me wrong" is nothing more than irrelevant bluster. Neither of us can "prove" the other wrong. It's a judgment call, not a matter of factual proof. Even hindsight isn't 20/20 on this type of question.

The better way to look at it is that I would err more on the side of caution, whereas you would have been more aggressive & played a more normal season. Which simply reinforces that agree to disagree is the correct way to move forward.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

In this case, "Prove me wrong" is nothing more than irrelevant bluster.

I'll admit my chest may have been puffed out a LITTLE bit when posting that but it certainly wasn't meant to be derisive, hence my opening statement of the respect I have for you on forum in an attempt to set the tone that it was opinion and not criticism.

 

[Offsides Guy]

Interesting news out of OSU. “Kenzie Hauswirth will continue her athletic and academic career as a member of the Ohio State women’s ice hockey team, head coach Nadine Muzerall announced today.” Muzz picked her out of the transfer portal. I’m sure we’ll see more of this in the months ahead across the league. Wonder how it impacts recruiting, scholarships, etc.

And how’d she get past Mark Johnson?!

Going to be an interesting offseason!

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Interesting news out of OSU. “Kenzie Hauswirth will continue her athletic and academic career as a member of the Ohio State women’s ice hockey team, head coach Nadine Muzerall announced today.” Muzz picked her out of the transfer portal. I’m sure we’ll see more of this in the months ahead across the league. Wonder how it impacts recruiting, scholarships, etc.

And how’d she get past Mark Johnson?!

Going to be an interesting offseason!

Yeah, you beat me to posting this, was tied up at work. From what coach said she had watched her play scouting her in high school and knew right away she wanted to pursue her when she appeared in the transfer portal and obviously the feeling was mutual!
Here's the link -

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/buckey...021-22-season/

 

[Timothy A]

Interesting news out of OSU. “Kenzie Hauswirth will continue her athletic and academic career as a member of the Ohio State women’s ice hockey team, head coach Nadine Muzerall announced today.” Muzz picked her out of the transfer portal. I’m sure we’ll see more of this in the months ahead across the league. Wonder how it impacts recruiting, scholarships, etc.

And how’d she get past Mark Johnson?!

Going to be an interesting offseason!

Watts! UW has an openings @ F next year, Watts was MJ thinking! So NOW how do the OSU fans feel about the transfer situation?! LOL Wink Wink

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

So NOW how do the OSU fans feel about the transfer situation?! LOL Wink Wink

I'm ethically opposed to the transfer portal.I'm just not a fan of the transfer portal as it currently exists whether it benefits my team or not in any sport as it can and does cause damage to programs who shouldn't have to find themselves in a situation to replace players they normally wouldn't have to.
The main difference here Timothy is she's coming in for next season and not getting to play mid season like Wisconsin's pickup. (Wink Wink)!

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

And how'd she get past Mark Johnson?!

The answer may be simpler than you think. Years ago when Tressel was Ohio State's football coach I remember a press conference when a reporter seemed upset that we let a good Ohio kid commit to Michigan and asked Tress how'd he let that happen? Tress just looks at the guy and calmly says "You can't take them all."

 

[pgb-ohio]

Watts! UW has an openings @ F next year, Watts was MJ thinking! So NOW how do the OSU fans feel about the transfer situation?! LOL Wink Wink

Speaking for myself, I haven't changed my opinion one bit. And I'm very happy to welcome Kenzie to Ohio State.

Regardless of my personal opinion on the transfers, I'm fine with competing on the basis of the agreed upon rules. If all parties follow all relevant rules, then so be it. Legal transfers are like legal tax deductions. Even if you were against a deduction when proposed, if it becomes law, you can take the deduction just like anyone else.

You might recall my personal opinion from previous threads. IIRC, you & I found some common ground, but took a lot of flack from other posters. Personally I'd prefer that players transferring from one D-1 program to another use their red-shirt year before competing for their new team. IMHO, that strikes the right balance between the competing interests. (Though I do favor allowing a player who completes her undergraduate degree early to play immediately for her graduate school.)

But in this case, notice that Kenzie didn't compete in 2020-21. Granted, the pandemic created very unique circumstances. Still, I'd say that even if my version of the rule was in force, Kenzie's year off should satisfy the restriction. So I don't even have hypothetical qualms about this news.

 

[Offsides Guy]

Speaking for myself, But in this case, notice that Kenzie didn't compete in 2020-21. Granted, the pandemic created very unique circumstances. Still, I'd say that even if my version of the rule was in force, Kenzie's year off should satisfy the restriction. So I don't even have hypothetical qualms about this news.

Actually I think she played in several games this season registering 40 SOG and 4 or so points. She no longer shows up on Q’s roster but is still in the stats.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Actually I think she played in several games this season registering 40 SOG and 4 or so points. She no longer shows up on Q’s roster but is still in the stats.

You're correct; good catch. Even though she doesn't currently appear on the Bobcat Roster, she is acknowledged on QU's Individual Stats Page. Her stats are what you said. Also, she was apparently a +6 when she left.

Guess that takes me a little out of my comfort zone. But I'm still supporting Kenzie as a legal transfer.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Well the WCHA Tournament field is set. We play Minnesota Duluth March 6th at 6:07 Eastern time.
At least when the tournament is over I can cancel that God awful FloHockey subscription!
There is no game for 3rd place between the losers of the 1st round.

 

[Timothy A]

Well the WCHA Tournament field is set. We play Minnesota Duluth March 6th at 6:07 Eastern time.
At least when the tournament is over I can cancel that God awful FloHockey subscription!
There is no game for 3rd place between the losers of the 1st round.

The tournament is only on FLO? I may have to subscribe. There should always be a 3rd place game. The teams and (and fans) are there anyway, just play. It may be very meaningful this year. If UM and/or UMD lose in round 1, round 2 would potentially be an ncaa play in game for them.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

The tournament is only on FLO? I may have to subscribe.

When I was commenting on how awful FLO is I wasn't meaning the quality of the transmission, Ohio State has a lock on 1st place for horrible video. My reference was the prices they charge and they don't sell single games but if you sign up to watch the tournament be very careful doing it as it's rather deceptive on their website and after I did it it seems it tricked me into being billed for an entire years worth instead of the monthly rate!

 

[robertearle]

The tournament is only on FLO? I may have to subscribe. There should always be a 3rd place game. The teams and (and fans) are there anyway, just play. It may be very meaningful this year. If UM and/or UMD lose in round 1, round 2 would potentially be an ncaa play in game for them.

I wouldn't do anything until Friday at the earliest. Other years it has take the WCHA until later in the week to post "video stream for free" links at their site, and BTN often leaves things off the 'schedule' until game day gets closer. All year BTN has had rights to home games of B1G schools; why would this one be different?

 

[ARM]

There should always be a 3rd place game. The teams and (and fans) are there anyway, just play. It may be very meaningful this year.

The next meaningful 3rd-place game that I see in women's hockey will be the first. The players never want to play in them. The NCAA consolations were the worst, but in any tourney, it's flat Team A versus flat Team B. After the game, none of the winning players even bother dredging up the "we wanted it more" cliche.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

I wouldn't do anything until Friday at the earliest. Other years it has take the WCHA until later in the week to post "video stream for free" links at their site, and BTN often leaves things off the 'schedule' until game day gets closer. All year BTN has had rights to home games of B1G schools; why would this one be different?

That would be nice if it was broadcast other than FLO but it looks like FLO has a contract to broadcast the tournament and also is one of the sponsors and I've never seen the tournament shown on two different carriers at the same time before.