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ObamaRama 8

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Re: ObamaRama 8

SteveF said:
now a lot of my ranting is more enron-based than subprime mtg crisis. but there were a lot of similarities in the two events. namely, regulators asleep at the wheel because everyone and their mother was making sums of money and no one wanted to be the person to rock the boat.
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It wasn't so much that the regulators were asleep, so much as they had no idea what they were regulating. The former head of OTS said as much last year when he was quizzed about AIG. The SEC, CFTC, OCC, Fed, FDIC, etc., as well as number of state regulators, really have/had no idea what their charges are doing, or what products they are offering, until well after the fact. However, I would also agree, that when everyone is "fat, happy and lazy" there's very little incentive for regulators or Congress to look under the hood.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

SteveF said:
now a lot of my ranting is more enron-based than subprime mtg crisis. but there were a lot of similarities in the two events. namely, regulators asleep at the wheel because everyone and their mother was making sums of money and no one wanted to be the person to rock the boat.
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The top management had the same excuses too. Too bad we didn't send the executives of all the banks to jail like Enron boys.

Instead of giving out the $150billion bonus to employees, banks should be forced to spend that money buying back the Troubled Assets that Fed/Treasury bought from them. Fed supposedly made money on these TARP so banks should be thrilled to buy them back at cost and we can shut down the $700billion TARP program.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - Rasmussen

Voters aren’t happy with the latest tax proposed to help pay for the trillion-dollar national health care plan, and they’re even unhappier with exempting labor unions from that tax.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 33% of U.S. voters support enacting a significant excise tax on the most expensive health insurance plans provided by employers.

Sixty-three percent (63%) oppose the excise tax on so-called “Cadillac” health insurance plans, up five points from late December. Only 10% Strongly Support it and 42% Strongly Oppose the excise tax.

Labor unions, an important constituency in the Democratic Party, complained about the excise tax because many of their members have such “Cadillac” health plans as part of collective bargaining agreements. To keep union support for the overall health care plan, President Obama and Democratic leaders agreed last week to exempt union members from the tax for five years and modify it in other ways so they don’t pay as much.

Voters really frown on that action. Only 27% support the excise tax if it exempts union members, while 70% are opposed. But even more significantly, if the union members are exempt 11% Strongly Support the tax while 51% Strongly Oppose it.

Voters generally are unhappy with special deals for favored groups. In December, Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson gained concessions for his home state in exchange for his vote to keep the health care legislation alive. Just 17% of Nebraska voters approved of his action.

Thirty-eight percent (38%) of voters nationwide favor the overall health care reform plan proposed by the president and congressional Democrats. That matches the lowest level of support yet. Fifty-six percent (56%) oppose the plan.

In the stunning Republican upset victory in the Massachusetts special Senate election Tuesday, 56% of Bay State voters named health care as the most important issue.

Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Democrats think the excise tax is a good idea, but support drops 10 points to 49% when unions are exempted from the tax.

Eighty-five percent (85%) of Republicans and 68% of voters not affiliated with either party oppose an excise tax on the most expensive health care plans provided by employers.

When union members are exempted from the excise tax, opposition rises to 76% among unaffiliateds but stays roughly the same among GOP voters at 87%.

To help pay for the health plan, one tax voters do strongly support is an income tax surcharge on individuals who earn more than $500,000 a year and couples who earn more than $1 million a year.

Seventy-eight percent (78%) of voters believe the health care plan will cost more than projected. Voters overwhelmingly think passage of the plan will increase the federal deficit and result in tax hikes on the middle class.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

spending.JPG
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

MinnFan,

How much of that is bailing out banks and car companies that don't deserve not to be bankrupted, broken up in little pieces, and swallowed up by others?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
MinnFan,

How much of that is bailing out banks and car companies that don't deserve not to be bankrupted, broken up in little pieces, and swallowed up by others?
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Does it really matter all that much? Is the Government picking the money off that money tree again so that is doesn't count? You know the one. It's the one that Congress and the President thinks is magical and they take and take and take from it and never worry about where the money comes from and if it will ever run out. An, of course, never pay back.

Oh, I know, wait...It the great recession's fault. They had to spend! Otherwise we would have record unemployment and no recovery in sight! :rolleyes:
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

MattS said:
Does it really matter all that much? Is the Government picking the money off that money tree again so that is doesn't count? You know the one. It's the one that Congress and the President thinks is magical and they take and take and take from it and never worry about where the money comes from and if it will ever run out. An, of course, never pay back.

Oh, I know, wait...It the great recession's fault. They had to spend! Otherwise we would have record unemployment and no recovery in sight! :rolleyes:
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That's all fine as long as you realize that the infrastructure that allows the private sector to exist does not exist in a vacuum.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

MattS said:
Oh, I know, wait...It the great recession's fault. They had to spend! Otherwise we would have record unemployment and no recovery in sight! :rolleyes:
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You saying it's not? Then, what was the alternative? What was the correct course of action?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
MinnFan,

How much of that is bailing out banks and car companies that don't deserve not to be bankrupted, broken up in little pieces, and swallowed up by others?
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I would wager pretty much all of the increase is driven by the recession...and we know who was driving when we hit that tree. Also why do those on the right keep trying to bury military spending?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
That's all fine as long as you realize that the infrastructure that allows the private sector to exist does not exist in a vacuum.
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oh please don't tell me that gov't allows private groups to exist.

Yes, we have police which enforce laws which allow private enterprise to exist so that people don't rampantly steal from each other. That doesn't mean the gov't gets to do as it feels.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
That's all fine as long as you realize that the infrastructure that allows the private sector to exist does not exist in a vacuum.
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Weak. If a piece of infrastructure doesn't exist and I think I could make more profits if it did, I'll build it myself. But you can be darn sure that a private company will do a lot more careful cost-benefit analysis of the project than the government ever would. For a private company, it's their butts on the line (or should be!), but it absolutely matters not one iota to people in the government if they build bridges to nowhere.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

LynahFan said:
Weak. If a piece of infrastructure doesn't exist and I think I could make more profits if it did, I'll build it myself. But you can be darn sure that a private company will do a lot more careful cost-benefit analysis of the project than the government ever would. For a private company, it's their butts on the line (or should be!), but it absolutely matters not one iota to people in the government if they build bridges to nowhere.
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You must live in La La Land.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
You must live in La La Land.
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No, he's absolutely right.

LynahFan said:
Weak. If a piece of infrastructure doesn't exist and I think I could make more profits if it did, I'll build it myself. But you can be darn sure that a private company will do a lot more careful cost-benefit analysis of the project than the government ever would. For a private company, it's their butts on the line (or should be!), but it absolutely matters not one iota to people in the government if they build bridges to nowhere.
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The thing that I'd add, however, is the importance of network effects.

Look at freight rail, for example. It's extremely efficient. By all accounts, the technology alone should be more widespread than it is, but since it's competing with trucking (which has a massive, government paid-for, tax free highway infrastructure just given to them) while the railroads are paying for their own infrastructure, paying taxes on the land, and making investments in their own upkeep, they've understandably retreated into areas where they have a huge competitive advantage (long haul, bulk cargo, etc).

There's absolutely a reason for governments to invest in infrastructure. They can have the vision and long term approach to build things that the private sector would not - particularly big networks. But we also need to realize that these investments do distort the marketplace, and constantly adjust our investments accordingly.

I, for one, would really like to see Obama push the National Infrastructure Bank idea. We need the investments, we need new financing mechanisms, and the idea of the government providing the little push over the hump that the private sector might need (just as it did with the original railroads, via land grants) is a good idea.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

blockski said:
There's absolutely a reason for governments to invest in infrastructure. They can have the vision and long term approach to build things that the private sector would not - particularly big networks. But we also need to realize that these investments do distort the marketplace, and constantly adjust our investments accordingly.
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Are you arguing both sides? You can't argue "A" and then ask for "B". Their obviously based on the reactions I've gotten NO reason for the government to invest any money in infrastructure. Just let the private sector take care of it.

Perhaps some folks should live in a 3rd world country for a while and see what no infrastructure looks like.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

5mn_Major said:
I would wager pretty much all of the increase is driven by the recession...and we know who was driving when we hit that tree. Also why do those on the right keep trying to bury military spending?
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How does the recession increase spending? These aren't deficit numbers. Its purely gov't spending.

Defense spending has actually increased under Obama so perhaps you should be happy it wasn't included.
 
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