Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

It doesn't mean the market is wrong, it means that I'm not involved in any transactions of the sort, and I explained why. Are all libtards emotional? Use some logic, for crying out loud!

So put your money where your mouth is. There are funds out there that let you bet against U.S. government securities (some politicians even hold some of those, as though that isn't a conflict of interest). If you're so certain we should be junk status even though every other market indicator tells us otherwise, you'll make a fortune.

 

[duper]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

"Bob" is definitely a racist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbULBAjstBA&feature=player_embedded

This definitely made me laugh. Probably not even remotely at what it made you laugh at, but it was definitely hilarious.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

So put your money where your mouth is. There are funds out there that let you bet against U.S. government securities (some politicians even hold some of those, as though that isn't a conflict of interest). If you're so certain we should be junk status even though every other market indicator tells us otherwise, you'll make a fortune.

Just take one look at commodity investments.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Forbes and Mitt will be great together.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz...kruptcy-the-gold-medal-for-silly-op-ed-pieces

Just keep talking both sides of an issue and your always right!

Have to think bailouts are over.

I don't mind a freewheeling discussion that shows two different opinions. I give the mag credit for that.

Geezer, did somebody driving a GM car run over your dog? "I know somebody who said...." = baseless tripe. If nobody is buying GM cars, why are they the best selling worldwide? A point you refuse to address becuase it doesn't fit your narrative. Have your imaginary friend show up with some proof of these accusations please. Otherwise I will post about my friend in the know who claims that geezer has 6 wives but only two of them are human and the others are farm animals. I have no proof of this, but hey, that doesn't seem to matter anymore.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I don't mind a freewheeling discussion that shows two different opinions. I give the mag credit for that.

Geezer, did somebody driving a GM car run over your dog? "I know somebody who said...." = baseless tripe. If nobody is buying GM cars, why are they the best selling worldwide? A point you refuse to address becuase it doesn't fit your narrative. Have your imaginary friend show up with some proof of these accusations please. Otherwise I will post about my friend in the know who claims that geezer has 6 wives but only two of them are human and the others are farm animals. I have no proof of this, but hey, that doesn't seem to matter anymore.

All just like Biden and Mitt's taxes, eh?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I don't mind a freewheeling discussion that shows two different opinions. I give the mag credit for that.

Geezer, did somebody driving a GM car run over your dog? "I know somebody who said...." = baseless tripe. If nobody is buying GM cars, why are they the best selling worldwide? A point you refuse to address becuase it doesn't fit your narrative. Have your imaginary friend show up with some proof of these accusations please. Otherwise I will post about my friend in the know who claims that geezer has 6 wives but only two of them are human and the others are farm animals. I have no proof of this, but hey, that doesn't seem to matter anymore.

I already tried to explain to you why the stock is awful, but you just don't seem to listen, do you?

Reminder to self: Never try to explain the stock market to a communist.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Good lord. The derp is strong with this one.

You do realize the only reason we lost our AAA status is because the tea party refused to accept 98% of what they wanted, right? It's not the debt that caused the downgrade, but the fact certain politicians were actively pushing us to default.

The credit markets will tell us when we're junk status, because they'll stop being willing to lend to us at record low rates. Or are you now going to tell me your revered market is wrong?

You really think our credit rating wouldn't have been downgraded due to the federal government's deteriorating financial status, regardless of what the tea party did or didn't do? Wow. You could argue the timing might have been slightly different, but the downgrade (and probably more) had been in the cards for awhile and was broadly expected.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

You really think our credit rating wouldn't have been downgraded due to the federal government's deteriorating financial status, regardless of what the tea party did or didn't do? Wow. You could argue the timing might have been slightly different, but the downgrade (and probably more) had been in the cards for awhile and was broadly expected.

To be honest, if you set your own debt limit, your credit rating should be decreased every time you increase your own limit because your debt level is close to your limit. If, in better times, you choose to increase your debt limit for inflationary purposes, that's understandable, but doing it because you can't pay your bills is just plain unacceptable. It'd be like me going to the credit card company when I have a $4950 debt on a card with a $5000 limit and asking them to increase my limit. What do you think they're going to say? I actually want you to answer this question, unofan.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Possibly could have happened this summer when they dropped everyone in Europe not called the Netherlands or Germany.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Possibly could have happened this summer when they dropped everyone in Europe not called the Netherlands or Germany.

Credit agencies are not like government agencies. They don't downgrade entities in one felt swoop. Plus, the downgrade happened 5 August 2011, not 2012. http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...redit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_story.html

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Credit agencies are not like government agencies. They don't downgrade entities in one felt swoop. Plus, the downgrade happened 5 August 2011, not 2012. http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...redit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_story.html

Bob was saying that the Tea Party at most, changed the timing of when the downgrade was going to occur, not that one would ever happen. I was making a suggestion as to when it could have happened if there hadn't been a debt ceiling fight in 2011- This summer, when the credit agencies, you know, downgraded 7 European nations in one fell swoop.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Bob was saying that the Tea Party at most, changed the timing of when the downgrade was going to occur, not that one would ever happen. I was making a suggestion as to when it could have happened if there hadn't been a debt ceiling fight in 2011- This summer, when the credit agencies, you know, downgraded 7 European nations in one fell swoop.

Actually, it was the entire Congress's inactivity that delayed the downgrade. They could have prevented a downgrade by immediately reining in discretionary spending not involving the honour of contracts and not raising the debt limit. As for the "fell swoop", it was pure coincidence. Credit agencies looked at each entity individually and made a decision, but like any company, they likely made the statement at one time in order to make you think it was just a blanket downgrade.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Bob was saying that the Tea Party at most, changed the timing of when the downgrade was going to occur, not that one would ever happen. I was making a suggestion as to when it could have happened if there hadn't been a debt ceiling fight in 2011- This summer, when the credit agencies, you know, downgraded 7 European nations in one fell swoop.

I tend to think that it would have happened sometime around when the downgrade actually took place, but you could be right. I'd note that, IIRC, there have been other European downgrades besides the ones you reference, so under your theory it could have happened during one of those times also. I just recall at the time a lot of trade press articles said that the downgrade had been coming and was no real surprise to anyone. Really, I think we're fortunate to not have been downgraded further.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I tend to think that it would have happened sometime around when the downgrade actually took place, but you could be right. I'd note that, IIRC, there have been other European downgrades besides the ones you reference, so under your theory it could have happened during one of those times also. I just recall at the time a lot of trade press articles said that the downgrade had been coming and was no real surprise to anyone. Really, I think we're fortunate to not have been downgraded further.

I only noticed this one because I was going to start complaining if France still had a AAA rating while we didn't.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I only noticed this one because I was going to start complaining if France still had a AAA rating while we didn't.

Big picture, our finances are gradually decaying and as they get worse more downgrades are inevitable.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I already tried to explain to you why the stock is awful, but you just don't seem to listen, do you?

Reminder to self: Never try to explain the stock market to a communist.

I don't have insight into the tiny make believe world that exists only in your mind Flag. What I do know is that a company about to go out of business doesn't trade over 20 bucks a share and 7 times earnings. One would think a person with a basic understanding of markets would know this.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I don't have insight into the tiny make believe world that exists only in your mind Flag. What I do know is that a company about to go out of business doesn't trade over 20 bucks a share and 7 times earnings. One would think a person with a basic understanding of markets would know this.

If it isn't supposed to trade there, then the 233-day SMA shouldn't be going steadily down over the past 6 months. I never said they were about to go out of business. I said there's a reason that, despite fairly heavy volume (6-month average estimate probably around 8 million shares per day or so), there isn't an onslaught of buyers which would drive up the price.

Here, a pretty picture explaining this: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

If it isn't supposed to trade there, then the 233-day SMA shouldn't be going steadily down over the past 6 months. I never said they were about to go out of business. I said there's a reason that, despite fairly heavy volume (6-month average estimate probably around 8 million shares per day or so), there isn't an onslaught of buyers which would drive up the price.

Here, a pretty picture explaining this: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

This. P/E of 7.5 is very low - investors have very little long-term confidence that GM will be profitable, otherwise more would be buying in and driving the P/E back up to 15 or 20 where a healthy company belongs.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

This. P/E of 7.5 is very low - investors have very little long-term confidence that GM will be profitable, otherwise more would be buying in and driving the P/E back up to 15 or 20 where a healthy company belongs.

I learned a very valuable lesson about GM back in 2008-2009. I was one of the unfortunates who had a bunch of their 8% bonds always feeling that as GM goes, so goes the nation and that they could not go bankrupt ever. I watched as the bonds became worthless-yet GM was somehow still able to pay their laid off workers and reopen closed plants. I had always felt bondholders were at the higher level of investors and would be somewhat likely to be paid off in the event of a failure yet received nothing for the bonds. During the deep sell off of the 2008-2009 years on paper I got creamed-but have made back virtually everything with the notable exception of anything on the GM investments. Those that choose to invest in their future now-I can only say, good luck to you. Personally i would rather take a chance on a bunch of PowerBall tickets than ever invest in that company again. It goes without saying that I would never again purchase one of their vehicles. Just my 2¢ based on my own anecdotal experience with the company.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I learned a very valuable lesson about GM back in 2008-2009. I was one of the unfortunates who had a bunch of their 8% bonds always feeling that as GM goes, so goes the nation and that they could not go bankrupt ever. I watched as the bonds became worthless-yet GM was somehow still able to pay their laid off workers and reopen closed plants. I had always felt bondholders were at the higher level of investors and would be somewhat likely to be paid off in the event of a failure yet received nothing for the bonds. During the deep sell off of the 2008-2009 years on paper I got creamed-but have made back virtually everything with the notable exception of anything on the GM investments. Those that choose to invest in their future now-I can only say, good luck to you. Personally i would rather take a chance on a bunch of PowerBall tickets than ever invest in that company again. It goes without saying that I would never again purchase one of their vehicles. Just my 2¢ based on my own anecdotal experience with the company.

The government did some serious fiddling with the bankruptcy laws with the GM bailout/restructuring. One wonders could they do it again with a different industry / company?