Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Please take a look at history. It doesn't matter how high you raise taxes you're going to get 19% of GDP in revenue.

Way to assert that for about the 100th time. It remains as patently false today as it was the first time you brought it up. Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

You don't? Oh crap, I better go get my nephew...

I dunno. How do you feel about your nephew..?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

All Dems vote "present" while Republicans vote in favor of it.

They tried that...the Republicans panicked and changed their votes to "No"

That should be enough to wake people up about what Republicans really care about, but people are still slumbering away.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Way to assert that for about the 100th time. It remains as patently false today as it was the first time you brought it up. Obvious troll is obvious.

It's true that federal revenue stays within fairly narrow bounds: between 15-20% of gdp. Still, that range is nothing to sneeze at. Bush jr. took office with revenue at ~20% of GDP and left office at ~15% of gdp: a 25% decline.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

It's true that federal revenue stays within fairly narrow bounds: between 15-20% of gdp. Still, that range is nothing to sneeze at. Bush jr. took office with revenue at ~20% of GDP and left office at ~15% of gdp: a 25% decline.

Unless revenue was flat and GDP went up. Then would you say it was a good thing??

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Unless revenue was flat and GDP went up. Then would you say it was a good thing??

And it looks like revenue did go up significantly during Bush Jrs term (not that I'm a fan of Bush Jr fan).

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GNP?cid=106

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

And it looks like revenue did go up significantly during Bush Jrs term (not that I'm a fan of Bush Jr fan).

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GNP?cid=106

What am I missing? That chart seems to show GNP going up.

Receipts (revenue) under Bush II:
1,483,623
1,337,828
1,258,479
1,345,381
1,576,149
1,798,494
1,932,912
1,865,953
1,450,986
(in millions)

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Unless revenue was flat and GDP went up. Then would you say it was a good thing??

Well, no. Because there's still another variable. Spending.

If spending skyrockets, and GDP goes up, and revenue stays flat, you're doing it wrong. Though there's still room for disagreement about which part, exactly, is wrong.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

What am I missing? That chart seems to show GNP going up.

Receipts (revenue) under Bush II:
1,483,623
1,337,828
1,258,479
1,345,381
1,576,149
1,798,494
1,932,912
1,865,953
1,450,986
(in millions)

I can't download the data for some reason...does that list go recent to past or vice versa?

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

What am I missing? That chart seems to show GNP going up.

Receipts (revenue) under Bush II:
1,483,623
1,337,828
1,258,479
1,345,381
1,576,149
1,798,494
1,932,912
1,865,953
1,450,986
(in millions)

My mistake. I meant to say GDP, not revenue. Although it looks like revenue went up also, just not as high a degree as GDP. If both are going up, that would seem to be a good thing. If more of the results of production is staying in the private sector rather than flowing to the federal government, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

My mistake. I meant to say GDP, not revenue. Although it looks like revenue went up also, just not as high a degree as GDP. If both are going up, that would seem to be a good thing. If more of the results of production is staying in the private sector rather than flowing to the federal government, I don't have a problem with that.

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

It's true that federal revenue stays within fairly narrow bounds: between 15-20% of gdp.

But it's absurd to say it always has to remain so, when clearly in economies like Norway and Sweden taxes take in more than 20% of GDP - it's not like there's some inherent law of nature that applies only to the U.S. government that gov't revenues can never become greater than 20% of GDP under any circumstances.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Anybody want to impugn those numbers before we start debating what they mean? Let's get that out of the way first.

We also need to agree on a few things...when were the bush tax cuts enacted, when were they sustained, when did the financial crisis begin, when did the war in afghanistan begin, when did the war in Iraq begin, when was the last election...

if we can get some of those facts agreed to then this could be a productive discussion.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Anybody want to impugn those numbers before we start debating what they mean? Let's get that out of the way first.

We also need to agree on a few things...when were the bush tax cuts enacted, when were they sustained, when did the financial crisis begin, when did the war in afghanistan begin, when did the war in Iraq begin, when was the last election... if we can get some of those facts agreed to

Are you new here? We usually prefer to hide our assumptions so that we can move the goalposts as needed.

then this could be a productive discussion.

Never mind, you are new here.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Are you new here? We usually prefer to hide our assumptions so that we can move the goalposts as needed.



Never mind, you are new here.

touche'

What was I thinking?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

But it's absurd to say it always has to remain so, when clearly in economies like Norway and Sweden taxes take in more than 20% of GDP - it's not like there's some inherent law of nature that applies only to the U.S. government that gov't revenues can never become greater than 20% of GDP under any circumstances.

Unless you expect a massive leftward lurch in the American electorate, there is simply no ****ing way that tax rates will ever go up enough to result in 20% of the GDP going to the treasury - and given what the government does with our money, why the **** would we want that amount of money going to Washington in the first place?

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Unless you expect a massive leftward lurch in the American electorate, there is simply no ****ing way that tax rates will ever go up enough to result in 20% of the GDP going to the treasury - and given what the government does with our money, why the **** would we want that amount of money going to Washington in the first place?

Yeah, but that's different than saying "regardless of tax rates, tax revenue always equals 19% of GDP" - which is what MinnFan claims as though it's some economic law on par with Newtons laws of physics.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Yeah, but that's different than saying "regardless of tax rates, tax revenue always equals 19% of GDP" - which is what MinnFan claims as though it's some economic law on par with Newtons laws of physics.

A tax rate at rest tends to remain at rest unless acted upon by a special interest group.

 

[joecct]

Unless you expect a massive leftward lurch in the American electorate, there is simply no ****ing way that tax rates will ever go up enough to result in 20% of the GDP going to the treasury - and given what the government does with our money, why the **** would we want that amount of money going to Washington in the first place?

You hit the nail on the head, kimosabe.

The fun(?) will be to see what government programs get axed and the resulting fallout from those cuts.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Yeah, but that's different than saying "regardless of tax rates, tax revenue always equals 19% of GDP" - which is what MinnFan claims as though it's some economic law on par with Newtons laws of physics.

Well, we did have a 70% top rate here and we still only collected approx 19% of GDP so I'd say that in america its pretty close to an economic law.

If you really wanted to get it up over 20% (why, I have no idea) the only likely way to do that it to tax the middle class and the poor a lot higher. The rich are are the most able to avoid the tax by either moving their money or simply not working. The other groups will be can't get away from it and its where the real money is.