Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

By that rationale then I'm guessing you don't care about repealing the Bush tax rates for the "rich" as it would make up approx the same amount as foreign aid.

If we can't cut the little things how are we ever going to be able to tackle the big ones?

I care about repealing all of the Bush tax cuts, which accounts for a helluva lot more money than 1% of the budget. How farking stupid do you have to be that think cutting taxes during a war is a good idea?

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I care about repealing all of the Bush tax cuts, which accounts for a helluva lot more money than 1% of the budget. How farking stupid do you have to be that think cutting taxes during a war is a good idea?

I don't know, how dumb to you have to be to increase spending 25% yearly during a recession?

You're right, its a whole 5% of the budget or 10% of the defecit to do all of them. Where does the rest come from?

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I don't know, how dumb to you have to be to increase spending 25% yearly during a recession?

You're right, its a whole 5% of the budget or 10% of the defecit to do all of them. Where does the rest come from?

Cut the defense budget of stupid things the DoD doesn't want and end the wars.

You don't have to get back to zero during a recession. You set yourself up to run surpluses in a good economy to make up for it. You know, what we did in the 90's.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Cut the defense budget of stupid things the DoD doesn't want and end the wars.

You don't have to get back to zero during a recession. You set yourself up to run surpluses in a good economy to make up for it. You know, what we did in the 90's.

Thats a start, but defense is only 20% of the budget. You could completely take away the DoD and all discretionary spending and still not cover the defecit.

All it seems some people want to do is raise taxes when you're never going to be anywhere near covering the gap by doing so. It also doesn't take into account the potential negative consequences of raising them. We didn't get into the place we are because we have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

If we aren't willing to draw the line on the smaller expenditures we're never going to be able to cut into those programs that are leading us down a path to insolvency.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

We didn't get into the place we are because we have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

Talking points are designed to terminate thinking.

The Dems' great mistake is always to try and "raise taxes" rather than changing the contours of the tax structure. The Republicans learned early on that to sell huge tax reductions on their donors they needed to grease the wheels with tiny supposed tax decreases for everyone else, even though because this exploded the deficit it actually resulted in tax increases on the middle class paying for tax holidays for the rich. That Trojan Horse has been working for them for 30 years now, and amazingly a lot of people still haven't caught on.

The Dems never come out and say something like, "we are raising taxes on people over $250k by 33% and we're cutting taxes on everyone else by .0000000000000001%," and then when the GOP opposes it run around and say "they want to raise your taxes! Horrors!" So they give away the soundbite every time. They may be honest, but they're stupid.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

We didn't get into the place we are because we have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

Is there anythign you don't parrot from generic GOP newsletters? I didn't think USCHO was such a political hotbed that we would get our own personal paid troll, but I may need to rethink that one.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Is there anythign you don't parrot from generic GOP newsletters? I didn't think USCHO was such a political hotbed that we would get our own personal paid troll, but I may need to rethink that one.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that by paying off 10% of the defecit we'll have fixed everything.

Please take a look at history. It doesn't matter how high you raise taxes you're going to get 19% of GDP in revenue. The reason that we are in the mess we're in is because we've spent far more than 19% of GDP. Just because the GOP says it and you want to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Talking points are designed to terminate thinking.

The Dems' great mistake is always to try and "raise taxes" rather than changing the contours of the tax structure. The Republicans learned early on that to sell huge tax reductions on their donors they needed to grease the wheels with tiny supposed tax decreases for everyone else, even though because this exploded the deficit it actually resulted in tax increases on the middle class paying for tax holidays for the rich. That Trojan Horse has been working for them for 30 years now, and amazingly a lot of people still haven't caught on.

The Dems never come out and say something like, "we are raising taxes on people over $250k by 33% and we're cutting taxes on everyone else by .0000000000000001%," and then when the GOP opposes it run around and say "they want to raise your taxes! Horrors!" So they give away the soundbite every time. They may be honest, but they're stupid.

I have a different take Kep. I'd just pass the GOP plan as is and then sit back and let the fun begin. Ryan's plan? All Dems vote "present" while Republicans vote in favor of it. It becomes the law of the land, and people feel the practical effect of voting Republican. A problem the Dems have post Clinton is an inability to frame issues. Enacting GOP legislation as proposed solves that problem. Where the Dems run into trouble is both the public and the GOP know they won't actually let these plans get enacted. That gives the GOP cover with both their base ("hey, we tried to pass the legislation but those **** liberals blocked it again") and with the more moderate general electorate because nobody really expects these things to become law. I say let it become law. Wisconsin is a great example of this theory in action. People there can be horrified all they want by Walker and co's actions, but you know what - that's what you voted for so stop complaining. Something like that affecting the whole country may cause people to consider their votes, or skipping out on voting. Hey, maybe they end up liking a Medicare voucher system who's savings to go cutting corporate taxes. Either way, I say the country should find out.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Either way, I say the country should find out.

I find your faith that people learn from experience and admit their mistakes to be misguided but adorable. There will always be a way to craft the conservative narrative to make anything that happens the "liberals' fault." We pass Ryan and seniors lose Medicare? Well, that's because those liberals spent so much money they bankrupted Medicare, goldurned it!

And beyond it not working, the "you'll be sorry" school of governance is unethical. You don't tell children to go play in the street to teach them a lesson about traffic safety.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that by paying off 10% of the defecit we'll have fixed everything.

Please take a look at history. It doesn't matter how high you raise taxes you're going to get 19% of GDP in revenue. The reason that we are in the mess we're in is because we've spent far more than 19% of GDP. Just because the GOP says it and you want to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean it isn't true.

Gee, let's see.

Taxes are at a historic low for rates, and have been since Bush took office. The economy has sucked pretty much ever since Bush took office. Especially if you consider that the only economy he had was entirely vapor (cheap home loans) based on his fantasyland ownership society BS.

Yep. There's no revenue problem here.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

You don't tell children to go play in the street to teach them a lesson about traffic safety.

You don't? Oh crap, I better go get my nephew...

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Yep. There's no revenue problem here.

Pretty tough concept but I'll bet the Scooby household doesn't spend money it doesn't have.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

And beyond it not working, the "you'll be sorry" school of governance is unethical. You don't tell children to go play in the street to teach them a lesson about traffic safety.

I think you do in this case. Here's how it plays out. Some temporary BS deal gets worked out for this year. Come 2012, House and Senate bring up Ryan plan as is over the summer. Dems all vote present in both House and Senate, bill passes unanimously (save for a few nutter libertarians who don't think it goes far enough). Obama obviously vetoes the bill. Here's where the fun begins. Reid shows some stones for once in his life, and declares that if the Dems lose the Senate, he will not stand in the way of an override during the lame duck session. Pelosi pledges the same if the GOP maintains the House. So, going into the election the choice is clear. Defeat Obama = Ryan plan enacted. Elect Obama but give GOP Congress = Ryan plan enacted. Without delving into which party is correct or not, the bottom line is there are crystal clear differences between the two parties for the electorate to choose from. This forces voters to take some responsibility. Its not a matter of voters "learning from their mistakes" as you mention, its more of "you made your own bed so now you get to sleep in it." Regardless of who they hold responsible voters will get the government they deserve either way because that's what they'll end up electing to govern them. That's the beauty of the system. I always get a big laugh out of these "buyers remorse" polls people take, which show that say Kasich for example would lose his election if it were held today vs his opponent in the 2010 election. Hey, guess what - there is no election today, and Ohio has him for 4 years, something they should have been aware of when they voted (or didn't vote) in the election that actually counted last November and frankly I don't feel any of these guys (Walker, Kasich, Scott, The Boner, Ryan, etc) are governing any different than anybody would have expected. So, if people don't like their policies, maybe they, oh I don't know...shouldn't have voted for them?

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that by paying off 10% of the defecit we'll have fixed everything.

Please take a look at history. It doesn't matter how high you raise taxes you're going to get 19% of GDP in revenue. The reason that we are in the mess we're in is because we've spent far more than 19% of GDP. Just because the GOP says it and you want to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean it isn't true.

And we're currently taking in about 14% of GDP in taxes, troll. And every time someone suggests actually paying for something, you and your paid cohorts scream like your mommy took away your favorite toy. We've fought 18 years of war in the past decade and not only did we not choose to sacrifice as a nation to pay for those wars, we cut taxes instead. So frankly, listening to you clowns start to snivel about how any kind of deficit is unacceptable after the past ten years is a ****ing joke. Too bad we didn't actually try to hike taxes to see how patriotic we really felt about kicking off a war in Iraq.

No debt plan without both increased taxes and decreased spending is possible. But your masters refuse to budge on any kind of tax increase and scream like banshees if tax cuts are allowed to expire.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Pretty tough concept but I'll bet the Scooby household doesn't spend money it doesn't have.

Whereas the walrus household thinks it is making too much money and wants to make less.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Pretty tough concept but I'll bet the Scooby household doesn't spend money it doesn't have.

I'm probably about even on the assets liabilities ledger. It goes back and forth by little amounts.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Whereas the walrus household thinks it is making too much money and wants to make less.

No the walrus household spends what it can without going into debt, just like the Scooby household, it figures you can't understand that tough concept

 

[joecct]

No the walrus household spends what it can without going into debt, just like the Scooby household, it figures you can't understand that tough concept

But how many households pay the bills via credit card balance transfers??

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

But how many households pay the bills via credit card balance transfers??

No one in America uses credit. We're all thrifty!

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I find your faith that people learn from experience and admit their mistakes to be misguided but adorable. There will always be a way to craft the conservative narrative to make anything that happens the "liberals' fault." We pass Ryan and seniors lose Medicare? Well, that's because those liberals spent so much money they bankrupted Medicare, goldurned it!

And beyond it not working, the "you'll be sorry" school of governance is unethical. You don't tell children to go play in the street to teach them a lesson about traffic safety.

But you do let them do some stupid shiat to teach them some lessons. Just not the ones with potentially permanent consequences.