Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Annual medicare fraud: $60 billion.

Every year.

That is Bernie Madoff, every single year.

I don't know SS fraud, maybe another $20 billion?

Not saying it could be zero, but we could knock $50 billion out of the equation without denying services to any qualified person. (every year)

How is that a discriminator between candidates? Isn't everybody against Medicare fraud?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I agree that it's easy to talk about rooting out fraud, etc. But very hard to do it at nearly the scale that politicians often claim they will achieve. Programs can be made to run better, but there will always be some level of fraud, cheating, etc. Only way to get fully get rid of cheating/fraud is to eliminate the programs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I agree that it's easy to talk about rooting out fraud, etc. But very hard to do it at nearly the scale that politicians often claim they will achieve. Programs can be made to run better, but there will always be some level of fraud, cheating, etc. Only way to get fully get rid of cheating/fraud is to eliminate the programs.

It costs money to root out fraud. We don't have any money. Thus my solution is the only solution.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Oh, so you agree with the following?

"Republicans talk about decreasing the deficit and then all they talk about is tax cuts, which widen the deficit. It's a very simple concept, but I can understand that some will avoid it for political reasons."

Oh, yeah, and thanks for that little accusation of obfuscation at the end. Stay classy.

BTW, in your world where Obama and the Dems have a dark master plan, what exactly is motivating them when they talk about stimulus, since it isn't economic philosophy? I can see the conspiracy theory about why Republicans want to cut the top marginal rate -- it's direct cui bono. But I don't understand why you think Obama wants to bankrupt the nation. Is he a Kenyan Muslin fifth column after all? Does he hate us for our freedom? Perhaps it's his troubling anti-colonial mindset?

He doesn't want to bankrupt the nation any more than the CEO of a company wants to mismanage it to the point that he/she has to layoff 2,000 people. Whether it is not being sure what to do, not knowing how to get it done, hoping it will pass, not having the leadership skills to get the right things done, not being focused on the right metrics, not having the right management staff or whatever, rarely does anybody try to screw it up. But plenty of stuff still gets screwed up.

sobering thought: congress and the executive branch aren't trying to screw up the country...they are trying to 'help' it

give the monkey the football

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

It costs money to root out fraud. We don't have any money. Thus my solution is the only solution.

Regardless of whether people support getting rid of programs or not, I think it's obvious that some level of fraud will be present as long as such programs exist.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

He doesn't want to bankrupt the nation any more than the CEO of a company wants to mismanage it to the point that he/she has to layoff 2,000 people. Whether it is not being sure what to do, not knowing how to get it done, hoping it will pass, not having the leadership skills to get the right things done, not being focused on the right metrics, not having the right management staff or whatever, rarely does anybody try to screw it up. But plenty of stuff still gets screwed up.

sobering thought: congress and the executive branch aren't trying to screw up the country...they are trying to 'help' it

give the monkey the football

I don't think Mitch McConnell has ever intended to help the country. I know some rich guys that really appreciate what he does though.

I agree that it's easy to talk about rooting out fraud, etc. But very hard to do it at nearly the scale that politicians often claim they will achieve. Programs can be made to run better, but there will always be some level of fraud, cheating, etc. Only way to get fully get rid of cheating/fraud is to eliminate the programs.

I agree. That's why candidates who trumpet rooting out fraud as a way of saving money or helping balance the budget are liars.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

He doesn't want to bankrupt the nation any more than the CEO of a company wants to mismanage it to the point that he/she has to layoff 2,000 people. Whether it is not being sure what to do, not knowing how to get it done, hoping it will pass, not having the leadership skills to get the right things done, not being focused on the right metrics, not having the right management staff or whatever, rarely does anybody try to screw it up. But plenty of stuff still gets screwed up.

But the point is if you come at it from their axioms, the administration is acting consistently, or is trying to, anyway -- they actually wanted greater stimulus but the Congress torpedoed them, and shortly after the recovery stalled, which is at least correlative evidence (not causal proof) that the administration was right.

Obviously, there's mistakes and incomplete information no matter what direction you choose. Even doing nothing (which is what the right seems to recommend) can be based on everything you enumerated.

This all circles back to economic philosophy: if you're a supply-sider (just recently returned from Venus and unaware of the lessons of the last thirty years) you are going to oppose the administration. That has nothing to do with the degree of competence of the current implementation.

You're coming at this as if everybody just patently accepts Austrian or supply-side axioms, but everybody doesn't -- in fact, outside the echo chamber, very few do anymore. They had a long trial and failed spectacularly. Time to try something else.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Obama is desperate to make something happen with the economy, and thus he just isn't very concerned about the long term ramifications of sending the national debt through the stratosphere. Someone else will be President and have to deal with it. He'll be long gone. That's my take on it. And yes, he's far from alone in acting with blinders to long term consequences for this country of short term actions.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Obama is desperate to make something happen with the economy, and thus he just isn't very concerned about the long term ramifications of sending the national debt through the stratosphere. Someone else will be President and have to deal with it. He'll be long gone. That's my take on it. And yes, he's far from alone in acting with blinders to long term consequences for this country of short term actions.

I don't even think Cheney was that cynical, and that's as close to a genuine sociopath we'll hopefully ever see near the White House.

Your premise is based on distrust, nothing more than that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

This all circles back to economic philosophy: if you're a supply-sider (just recently returned from Venus and unaware of the lessons of the last thirty years) you are going to oppose the administration. That has nothing to do with the degree of competence of the current implementation.

You're coming at this as if everybody just patently accepts Austrian or supply-side axioms, but everybody doesn't -- in fact, outside the echo chamber, very few do anymore. They had a long trial and failed spectacularly. Time to try something else.

I think it's pretty awesome that I'm reading this today because I heard last night during the debate and on the radio today and I bet at least 2,000 times over the past year that the Keynesian policies of the Obama administration have failed and that proves that they don't work. Ever.

I don't even think Cheney was that cynical, and that's as close to a genuine sociopath we'll hopefully ever see near the White House.

*cough* Mitch McConnell *cough*

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I don't even think Cheney was that cynical, and that's as close to a genuine sociopath we'll hopefully ever see near the White House.

Your premise is based on distrust, nothing more than that.

That's because some of that also went on in the Bush administration (large deficits themselves), so I wouldn't expect Cheney to be as cynical about it as he should be.

My premise is based on observing Obama's and others' actions and statements, which are almost totally obsessed with making things happen now instead of having any sense or vision of long term impacts. They all just imagine if we throw enough money out there now that the economy will boom and then somewhere down the road the gargantuan federal deficit will be paid off by all the money we'll be bathing in during the good economic times. Anyone who truly believes such a fantasy isn't qualified to play Candyland.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Regardless of whether people support getting rid of programs or not, I think it's obvious that some level of fraud will be present as long as such programs exist.

Yeah and it also causes all that red tape (verification, and paperwork). And criminals figure out a way around it (like buying up registered doctors offices). I think you need to increase the penalty and include forfeiture laws. It's less risk, penalty and more money than selling illegal drugs.

From reading Food stamp waste, about 5% is fraud and 5% is mistakes made by case workers and/or filers with paperwork (income change etc..).

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

That's why candidates who trumpet rooting out fraud as a way of saving money or helping balance the budget are liars.

Not necessarily. If you spend money on beefing up the IRS to crack down on tax cheats, that is actually a net-positive in dollar for dollar terms.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Not necessarily. If you spend money on beefing up the IRS to crack down on tax cheats, that is actually a net-positive in dollar for dollar terms.

That's increasing spending, that'll never happen. Unless it's for "defense".

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Not necessarily. If you spend money on beefing up the IRS to crack down on tax cheats, that is actually a net-positive in dollar for dollar terms.

Tax Cheats may be job creators. It would be easier just to stop collecting taxes from job creators altogether. And the last thing you want to do is hire more government workers. That makes government bigger.

 

[DisplacedCornellian]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

The Fourth Circuit tossed two Obamacare lawsuits today - essentially telling Ken Cuccinelli and Liberty University to go pound sand.

Neither case was decided on the merits - Virginia's case was tossed for lack of standing (no injury to the state, and the state cannot sue parens patriae on behalf of its citizens) Liberty University's was tossed as the Court said it was barred by the Anti-Injunction Act (basically saying the mandate is a tax, which you can't pre-litigate. Under the AIA, you have to pay the tax, then litigate.)

Thoughts?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

*cough* Mitch McConnell *cough*

McConnell's not a sociopath, he's just another in a time-honored lined of opportunists stretching all the way from Andrew Jackson to Bill Clinton.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

My premise is based on observing Obama's and others' actions and statements, which are almost totally obsessed with making things happen now instead of having any sense or vision of long term impacts. They all just imagine if we throw enough money out there now that the economy will boom and then somewhere down the road the gargantuan federal deficit will be paid off by all the money we'll be bathing in during the good economic times.

I'd just point out this is exactly how I observe Republican behavior: cut taxes today and someday everything will be alright. The important thing is to ensure those tax cuts come up front to harvest the political contributions.

I guess we both just view our own thinking as "long term" and its opposite as "short term." Which makes sense, psychologically, since obviously we wouldn't believe what we believe if we thought it wasn't the best longterm strategy.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

McConnell's not a sociopath, he's just another in a time-honored lined of opportunists stretching all the way from Andrew Jackson to Bill Clinton.

I beg to differ. The man is drip slime.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I'd just point out this is exactly how I observe Republican behavior: cut taxes today and someday everything will be alright. The important thing is to ensure those tax cuts come up front to harvest the political contributions.

I guess we both just view our own thinking as "long term" and its opposite as "short term." Which makes sense, psychologically, since obviously we wouldn't believe what we believe if we thought it wasn't the best longterm strategy.

Step 1: Steal underpants
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit