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Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

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Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Have you ever heard of perception?
. If the Taxes reverted to 2001 levels, who would get blamed? Neither side had any intention of allowing that no matter what happens
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Surprised you guys are taking this line of thinking. I was actually thinking this helps Obama's 2012 position. Unless you believe this is going to make a ton of liberals stay home.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Surprised you guys are taking this line of thinking. I was actually thinking this helps Obama's 2012 position. Unless you believe this is going to make a ton of liberals stay home.

Personally I don't. I think its waay too early to be calling Obama done. The final book hasn't been written on his agenda...nor on the economy. The latter is evidenced by an 70%+ increase in the stock market the implications of which are just starting to make its way to the greater economy.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Have you ever heard of perception? When something is in place for ten years, people are used to it for a good while and the perception is that they are permanent, so when people see their taxes go up next year if they aren't extended, it's understandable that they'd perceive it as a tax increase. You may not agree that's the right way to go, but it's stupid to argue people won't, and can't reasonably, perceive it as an increase.

Perception is for idiots who don't know what's going on around them. AKA most of the American voting public.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Surprised you guys are taking this line of thinking. I was actually thinking this helps Obama's 2012 position. Unless you believe this is going to make a ton of liberals stay home.

Not the liberals since they have no where to go (but stay home in discontent) but independents who wanted change from Bush policy and got Bush2 instead.

I'm supposed to believe Obama promise he'll fight this when it expires, but whos going to stop him from rolling over again. I wish sen. Sanders luck in the filibuster and I hope the democrats vote against it en mass to send a message to Bush2 in office.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-12-07-obama-tax-cut_N.htm
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, vowed to filibuster the deal. His colleague, Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, said the plan was "unconscionable."

Seeking to mollify angry Democrats, Obama vowed to fight further extensions of tax cuts for the wealthy when they expire in two years under the proposal being considered by Congress.

"To my Democratic friends, what I'd suggest is let's make sure that we understand this is a long game. This is not a short game," Obama said.

Republicans wanted the cuts to be permanent.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Personally I don't. I think its waay too early to be calling Obama done. The final book hasn't been written on his agenda...nor on the economy. The latter is evidenced by an 70%+ increase in the stock market the implications of which are just starting to make its way to the greater economy.

I think Obama is done. he should run as a Republican.
Although all this liquidity might float the economy by 2012 and help him a tad with better job numbers. We've so much liquidity in the markets, part of that money is going to the stock market. And like the guest mentioned it on Charlie Rose the Fed is watching the stock market and manipulating it... we don't have a free market--- it's central bank controlled.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Some-...8.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=
Rogers thinks interest rates are going to have to rise to fight inflation, which will be made worse by the fact that the Federal Reserve has continued to print money.

"A year ago the Fed was talking about how they're going to be withdrawing the liquidity by the end of 2010. Here we are at the end of 2010 and they're pumping more liquidity in," Rogers said.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

I hope the democrats vote against it en mass to send a message to Bush2 in office.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-12-07-obama-tax-cut_N.htm

I don't know if I fully agree with Kep that Obama is to the right of Bush senior, but...

Do you really believe that outcomes under Obama are on par with the unwarranted invasion of Iraq, instigating post 9/11 fear across the country, pursuit of media restrictions, desire to use the Constitution designed to protect rights instead used to limit Americans rights, and being in charge as US financial system underwent a total near great depression meltdown?

My, how people have short memories...
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Do you really believe that outcomes under Obama are on par with the unwarranted invasion of Iraq, instigating post 9/11 fear across the country, pursuit of media restrictions, desire to use the Constitution designed to protect rights instead used to limit Americans rights, and being in charge as US financial system underwent a total near great depression meltdown?

My, how people have short memories...

I think people have no memories, it's like they wake up blank every day.

Pray tell what changes has Obama made with Bush policy since he took office. Ran on---Change---Change---Change---We want it Now.
What do we got?
clone of Bush2 with more charisma and better orator skills.

I would take the economic numbers and stock market performance with a grain of salt with all this injected liquidity by the central bank.
We've gone from cocaine to crack with the amount of liquidity our economy is floating high on. Next step is higher dosage (QE2 and QE3) or we're coming tumbling down in withdraw or overdose (QE/liquidity has no effect).
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

I think people have no memories, it's like they wake up blank every day.

Pray tell what changes has Obama made with Bush policy since he took office. Ran on---Change---Change---Change---We want it Now.
What do we got?
clone of Bush2 with more charisma and better orator skills.

I would take the economic numbers and stock market performance with a grain of salt with all this injected liquidity by the central bank.
We've gone from cocaine to crack with the amount of liquidity our economy is floating high on. Next step is higher dosage (QE2 and QE3) or we're coming tumbling down in withdraw or overdose (QE/liquidity has no effect).

Just to be clear, I would have welcomed more liberal movement in specific policy.

But I don't think folks should confuse expectations and status quo by Obama...with false fiscal conservative promises and a reality of an aggressive social conservative push. Again, let's give a full 4 years before as liberals you decide to give the conservatives another monopoly.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Looking at the upticks in Treasury yields the past few days ... the bond vigilantes may be coming back from Greece, Ireland and Spain early next year. "Recovery" my ***** ...
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Yeah but interst rates went up with them
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

I don't know if I fully agree with Kep that Obama is to the right of Bush senior, but...

Do you really believe that outcomes under Obama are on par with the unwarranted invasion of Iraq, instigating post 9/11 fear across the country, pursuit of media restrictions, desire to use the Constitution designed to protect rights instead used to limit Americans rights, and being in charge as US financial system underwent a total near great depression meltdown?

My, how people have short memories...

Considering he signed the PATRIOT Act extension, has yet ot repeal don't ask dont tell, allowed the TSA's continued intrusion into passengers' privacy, still hasn't shut down Guantanimo, still hasn't pulled us out of Iraq or Afghanistan...yeah.

He may not have gotten us into any of that, but he sure as hell hasn't gotten us out of any of it yet, either.

I think it's fair to wonder why he couldn't have changed at least one of the above in 2 years with a Democratic congress at his back.
 
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Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Considering he signed the PATRIOT Act extension, has yet ot repeal don't ask dont tell, allowed the TSA's continued intrusion into passengers' privacy, still hasn't shut down Guantanimo, still hasn't pulled us out of Iraq or Afghanistan...yeah.

He may not have gotten us into any of that, but he sure as hell hasn't gotten us out of any of it yet, either.

I think it's fair to wonder why he couldn't have changed at least one of the above in 2 years with a Democratic congress at his back.

Your list is just a small part of what the conservative monopoly brought to the table including an endless Iraq occupation (which changed upon a campaign visit by BO), gay marriage Constitutional amendments, serious damage to US reputation and amazing subsidies to record earning big oil without any strings.

I'd love to see the stuff you mentioned changed...but don't vote until there's 4 years under his belt.

And if there's ever a question, just ask what would (will) Romney, Palin or Gingrich do?
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

The problem is that the Democrats are spineless. I don't know if it's a natural progression from being a party of more disparate interests, terror of what the talk radio media will say, or what, but all I need to see is that Bush regularly accomplished more of his agenda with a 50+VP Senate and threats from Republicans in Congress than Obama did with 59 Democratic Senators. I'm not sure he would have matched Bush's "accomplishments" with 70. The Republicans? Vote with us or get out of the way, and if you threaten a filibuster, we'll threaten a "nuclear option" and shut you down anyway.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

The problem is that the Democrats are spineless. I don't know if it's a natural progression from being a party of more disparate interests, terror of what the talk radio media will say, or what, but all I need to see is that Bush regularly accomplished more of his agenda with a 50+VP Senate and threats from Republicans in Congress than Obama did with 59 Democratic Senators. I'm not sure he would have matched Bush's "accomplishments" with 70. The Republicans? Vote with us or get out of the way, and if you threaten a filibuster, we'll threaten a "nuclear option" and shut you down anyway.

Assuming your right...the GOP has been putting out social policy that's on the fringe of society and therefore, the more moderate 80% of society should prefer Dems regardless of the party's position. I'll take gridlock over another push to the right.
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

When am I getting the tax cut anyway?

I'm confused as well. I've heard for 10 years that these cuts are "for the rich". Now there's a middle class component to them? The heck?
 
Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

Its called populist. IMO this is another horrible outcome of the crapola coming at us from the rightwing media...paying your way (ie taxes) is bad.

And for once I am in agreement with you. Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. The simplest of tax codes, the flat tax, is the by far the most morally just solution. No more loopholes for the rich, and enough of this travesty that is nearly half of all Americans skipping out on their fair share of the tax burden. The middle class has enough to deal with without being pinched from either end!

It's a great way to free up government funds too, after we whittle the tax code down from tens of thousands of pages worth of exceptions to one paragraph: all Americans shall be taxed at X%. Manufacturing arguments why this is not possible is a cop-out, this is something everyone can get behind.

Personally I don't. I think its waay too early to be calling Obama done. The final book hasn't been written on his agenda...nor on the economy. The latter is evidenced by an 70%+ increase in the stock market the implications of which are just starting to make its way to the greater economy.

Oh well, the streak is over. I'm in the "Obama's done" camp. In fact, I'm a statistical outlier. I said back in June of 2009 if Obama continues with his extreme left progressive agenda, there's a good chance he won't be the 2012 Democratic nominee. To date, his actions have proven to sheared off both his moderate base and have antagonized his far left progressive base - now, the only steadfast defenders and supporters he has left are those that vote Democrat without thought or question or caring about the consequences.

Hillary is very ambitious and she surely sees what's fairly obvious to the top 90th percentile (in intelligence terms, not wealth) of Americans, that Obama is damaging both the Democratic party and the American republic - it's far from out of the question that in two years' time she will challenge him - and I sincerely hope she will.... At any rate, the 18-month trend has steadily made this a more likely outcome - now, if we could only be so lucky to see it happen....

Considering he signed the PATRIOT Act extension, has yet ot repeal don't ask dont tell, allowed the TSA's continued intrusion into passengers' privacy, still hasn't shut down Guantanimo, still hasn't pulled us out of Iraq or Afghanistan...yeah.

He may not have gotten us into any of that, but he sure as hell hasn't gotten us out of any of it yet, either.

I think it's fair to wonder why he couldn't have changed at least one of the above in 2 years with a Democratic congress at his back.

This is such a worrisome post. It hints that the sheep in the herd of progressives do not have any ability to even have it occur to them that the left can have any bad intentions. If any worrisome actions should arise from the progressive leaders... put the kid gloves on and gingerly blame it on someone moving to the right side of the fence....

"I think it's fair to wonder....." What a stunning display of intellectual dishonesty! The same events you speak of - with the last president you were foaming at the mouth, and now you're saying in a quizzical tone of voice, "I think it's fair to wonder....." The exact same events - you crucify one president, and put on the kid gloves for the other. The sheep in the progressive flock are spending the vast majority of their efforts to see that the ends justify their means. And more and more, us commoners in America, the middle class, are wondering what "ends" they are striving for? It clearly isn't anything that is our best interests.

It's no wonder average Americans are beginning to show anger towards the progressive movement!

Conservatives have ONE set of standards based on justice and morals. Liberals have one set of standards as well, apparently - say and do whatever is needed to support the cause....
 
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Re: Obama XVIII : Now with 100% more Gov't sponsored starvation

I'm confused as well. I've heard for 10 years that these cuts are "for the rich". Now there's a middle class component to them? The heck?

No the argument is that it benefits the rich more than the rest of us. Since with child/medical/education tax credits and home interest deductions etc... 50%? or so of the people don't pay any taxes anyways so the tax reduction (hike) is meaningless to them.

If you want to look at flat tax look at capital gains tax.
It doesn't matter if you make $1000 or $1billion it's taxed at the same rate.
It's the same reason why we should repeal the Bush capital gains tax rate back to whatever it was 28% or 35% instead of 15% that hedgefund managers pay. since it only benefits people with money to invest and the supposed benefit of capital pool (liquidity) is hogwash with our central bank creating titanic liquidity in the name of saving our economy.
 
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