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Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

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Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

On the contrary, at least based on posters on another political board I post on, these people are smart and well educated and would gladly drop the issue immediately. While I clearly don't agree with them the reality is they are basing their opinion on fact... the fact that Obama refuses to produce his long-form birth certificate. Produce the evidence = issue gone... period.

But the point, for me, really is that it shouldn't be a big deal for there to be a law that dictates a simple verification process for candidates for federal office meeting the constitutional requirements for that office. I know common sense law isnt the norm for congress, but this seems like it should have been and easy one to enact some 200 years ago.

I respectfully disagree. While the "long form" birth certificate would convince some "birthers," the true believers would simply move the goal posts again and continue their crusade from another perspective. Proponants of the 1980 "October Surprise" wound up asserting that George H. W. Bush flew in an SR-71 "blackbird" to engage in his nefarious negotiations with Iran. Preposterous on its face, that assertion was the only way their time line would work, so that's how it "had" to be.

Take TWA 800. Despite the most exhaustive investigation in aviation history and a total lack of evidence, many people still cling to the notion the plane was "shot down."

Over the decades every claim by JFK conspiracy theorists has been proven to be wrong, a lie or a delusion. That hasn't stopped these claims from coming. Remember the series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy?" It concluded JFK was murdered by Corsican drug dealers! Really?

Belief in a JFK conspiracy has taken on the contours of a religion--impervious to any claims which contradict the core beliefs of its adherants. Similarly the "birthers" and "truthers" are not interested in proof that their theories are wrong. They "know what they know," you know?

Besides, this one case doesn't convince me we need another layer of federal bureaucracy to vet candidates. That could create more mischief than it resolves. Anyway, I think that's a matter for the states to deal with, not Uncle Sam.
 
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Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I respectfully disagree. While the "long form" birth certificate would convince some "birthers," the true believers would simply move the goal posts again and continue their crusade from another perspective.

Exactly. It's Creationism; don't feed the trolls.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

. Seriously, how hard can it be to verify his long-form birth certificate and be done with this crap?

Do they have those in Kenya?
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

You never do yourself a favor if you can try to put an issue to bed simply by producing an existing document, and you avoid doing so. By doing so, even if you don't convince the group of folks that is pursuing the issue, you make them look less credible to the rest of the population, and really probably do cause at least certain folks to drop the issue, even if others don't. It's a pretty basic tactic, that for whatever reason Obama hasn't pursued.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

You never do yourself a favor if you can try to put an issue to bed simply by producing an existing document, and you avoid doing so. By doing so, even if you don't convince the group of folks that is pursuing the issue, you make them look less credible to the rest of the population, and really probably do cause at least certain folks to drop the issue, even if others don't. It's a pretty basic tactic, that for whatever reason Obama hasn't pursued.

You can't get less credible when you already have zero credibility.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

You never do yourself a favor if you can try to put an issue to bed simply by producing an existing document, and you avoid doing so. By doing so, even if you don't convince the group of folks that is pursuing the issue, you make them look less credible to the rest of the population, and really probably do cause at least certain folks to drop the issue, even if others don't. It's a pretty basic tactic, that for whatever reason Obama hasn't pursued.

Perhaps. However, the dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result. The "birthers" conclude that Obama "has something to hide." In their minds that can be the only reason why he would resist releasing a document. And they might be right. On the other hand, they might be wrong. For sure, if the document is released, some (many?) of them will find another reason to claim Obama isn't "one of us."
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Perhaps. However, the dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result. The "birthers" conclude that Obama "has something to hide." In their minds that can be the only reason why he would resist releasing a document. And they might be right. On the other hand, they might be wrong. For sure, if the document is released, some (many?) of them will find another reason to claim Obama isn't "one of us."
But I can't imagine Obama cares much about what the hardcore birthers think. His audience would be mainstream America, where most don't buy into the conspiracy, but probably at least a few here and there stop and scratch their heads that Obama has avoided the issue and have at least a small seed of doubt. So, yes, nothing is solved with the hardcore folks, but for chunks of mainstream America that might at least have slight doubts, producing such a document would put the issue to bed. The fact that he hasn't done so is puzzling.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

It was different with them because they didn't, you know, look Jewish.

Years ago Sammy Davis, Jr was in a skit on somebody's TV show. Set in a western bar, Davis played an outlaw, at one point the sheriff said: "Get him, he's both."
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

But I can't imagine Obama cares much about what the hardcore birthers think. His audience would be mainstream America, where most don't buy into the conspiracy, but probably at least a few here and there stop and scratch their heads that Obama has avoided the issue and have at least a small seed of doubt. So, yes, nothing is solved with the hardcore folks, but for chunks of mainstream America that might at least have slight doubts, producing such a document would put the issue to bed. The fact that he hasn't done so is puzzling.

I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor. What if the simple explanation here is he's offended by this topic and is saying "screw those people?" I'd imagine his attitude might change if this matter were to gain some traction, beyond the fringies, and put his re-election at further risk.
 
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Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor. What if the simple explanation here is he's offended by this topic and is saying "screw those people?"
He's free to do so and it would probably be personally satisfying to do so. But politically, I don't believe it's the smartest tack.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

He's free to do so and it would probably be personally satisfying to do so. But politically, I don't believe it's the smartest tack.

There's no evidence this issue is hurting him at all. The people pushing it aren't exactly from his base. As I say, if he concludes it IS hurting him politically, I predict a 180. Besides, the exit polling from last week indicated millions of Americans have some serious problems with this dude, but this isn't one of them.
 
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Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

There's no evidence this issue is hurting him at all. The people pushing it aren't exactly from his base. As I say, if he concludes it IS hurting him politically, I predict a 180. Besides, the exit polling from last week indicated millions of Americans have some serious problems with this dude, but this isn't one of them.

Well said. Obama gains nothing from giving them what they want. He's under no obligation to give them the time of day, either. It's not like those questioning his legitimacy for the Presidency will turn around and vote for him. Everyone else of sound mind and body seems to be perfectly fine with the status quo.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

There's no evidence this issue is hurting him at all. The people pushing it aren't exactly from his base. As I say, if he concludes it IS hurting him politically, I predict a 180. Besides, the exit polling from last week indicated millions of Americans have some serious problems with this dude, but this isn't one of them.
I'm sure it's not a big issue either way, and won't be, and I agree that there's lots of bigger issues for people to argue over about him. But to me it makes sense to put one to bed if it's easy to, even if it's not the biggest or most pressing issue around.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

And everyone thought the whole Birther controversy was long gone. Yeesh. While I concede this article does nothing more the fuel fire for a ridiculous movement, it does successfully prove wrong my personal assumption that someone in the federal government (or in each state's government) actually bothers to make sure candidates for federal office are actually eligible for that office. That's absurd. Seriously, how hard can it be to verify his long-form birth certificate and be done with this crap?

Perfect. Hope Congress investigates. What a fine use of taxpayer money.
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Perfect. Hope Congress investigates. What a fine use of taxpayer money.

As compared to all the fine uses Barrack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi have put taxpayer money to the last couple years!:p
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I'm sure it's not a big issue either way, and won't be, and I agree that there's lots of bigger issues for people to argue over about him. But to me it makes sense to put one to bed if it's easy to, even if it's not the biggest or most pressing issue around.

Yup. It'll be interesting to learn what advice he's been given on this subject. Where's Lanny Davis when you really need him?
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Well said. Obama gains nothing from giving them what they want. He's under no obligation to give them the time of day, either. It's not like those questioning his legitimacy for the Presidency will turn around and vote for him. Everyone else of sound mind and body seems to be perfectly fine with the status quo.

I'm not sure "perfectly fine" accurately describes my feelings. Although in comparison to "President Biden," I think I'm good with it. ;)
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Are we seriously debating this issue (much less thinking about it)? :D
 
Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I'm not sure "perfectly fine" accurately describes my feelings. Although in comparison to "President Biden," I think I'm good with it. ;)

I suppose I should have clarified - perfectly fine with the status quo of Obama's meeting the legal requirements for the office.

And I agree on President Biden. :eek:
 
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