Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

Let's say that 5% of the people use illegal drugs now...what would that % be if drugs were legal? Would drug related crimes increase at the same rate or exponentially?

It's over 25% for marijuana use in the USA/Canada (decriminalized), Europe, Dutch (legal), Denmark (decriminalized) etc... so illegal or legal it's about the same % usage. +- 5%

The crime rate should stay the same. But incarceration rate will drop since 25% of prisoners are in for drug crimes. And cost of enforcement and penal will go down.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6405164-the-us-is-number-one-in-global-incarceration-rates

The industrial prison complex is alive and well in the U.S. Incarceration in the U.S. is at record levels although no doubt you will still hear many voices claiming the U.S. is soft on crime. Recent data in The Economist show the United States has the world's highest incarceration rate. The U.S. locks up 5 times more people per capita than Britain, 9times more than Germany, and 12 times more than Japan.

The incarceration rate per capita has quadrupled since 1970. In 1970 one in 400 Americans were in jail. Now there are one in 100 Americans in jail. If you count people on parole or probation a whopping one in 31 Americans is a client of the penal system!

As laws become tougher judges have less discretion. In some areas the incarceration is soaring for example violation of drug laws, From 1980 until now the number of people in jail for drug offences has soared 13 fold.

And prohibition of alcohol in the 20s

Prohibition had an impact on the crime rate of America. According to a study taken in 30 US cities, there was a 24 percent increase in crime rate between 1920 and 1921. The rate of arrests on account of drunkenness rose 41 percent, and arrests for drunken driving increased 81 percent. Thefts rose 9 percent, and assault and battery incidents rose 13 percent. Before Prohibition, there had only been 4000 federal convicts, and less than 3000 were housed in federal prisons. By 1932, the number of federal convicts had increased 561 percent and the federal prison population increased by 361 percent. Over 2/3 of all prisoners in 1930 were convicted on alcohol and drug charges.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

No good can come from this. I wish these people would think beyond themselves for a change.

He thought about it and is still going to burn them. Even though a United States General has told him not to.

That's just mind boggling to me.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. — A Christian minister said Tuesday that he will go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite warnings from the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and the White House that doing so would endanger U.S. troops.

Jones, who runs the small, evangelical Christian church with an anti-Islam philosophy, says he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100907/Quran.Burning/

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

Are you serious?

So why don't we outlaw alcohol again?

Perhaps its because you get things like 28,000 drug related murders in Mexico since 2007 due to prohibition.

I think this is a very good case for States Rights. Let some state legalize pot and see what happens. See if more people break laws while high and/or violence drops because there isn't the huge markup anymore. If it turns out to be a net positive other states can jump on board. If not, they can continue on their current path.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

I think this is a very good case for States Rights. Let some state legalize pot and see what happens. See if more people break laws while high and/or violence drops because there isn't the huge markup anymore. If it turns out to be a net positive other states can jump on board. If not, they can continue on their current path.

People really don't understand this concept anymore. Its something we need to get back to. Letting states choose most of the laws that govern their individual state and see what works and what doesn't...

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

That's just mind boggling to me.



http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100907/Quran.Burning/

I hate the south.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

He thought about it and is still going to burn them. Even though a United States General has told him not to.

That's just mind boggling to me.



http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100907/Quran.Burning/

This guys "church" has something like 150 members. Real significant..... He's getting his 15 minutes of fame. Ignore the idiot.

This is one case where the nooz media should have spiked the story.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

This guys "church" has something like 150 members. Real significant..... He's getting his 15 minutes of fame. Ignore the idiot.

This is one case where the nooz media should have spiked the story.

exactly, don't give him a platform

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

The debate about whether or not to "legalize" drugs "like alcohol," is based on a fundamental misconception. In fact, there is a crazy quilt of laws from coast to coast regarding booze. When you can buy it, where you can buy it (there are "state" stores in some states) and whether you can buy it (I grew up in a Chicago suburb in which there were no bars, package goods stores and even delivery from outside the town was against the law). To avoid this confusion in the case of drugs, you'd have to have a federal law, signed by the president. How many average members of the house would want to vote "yes" on such a measure? You would have an epic battle in congress with all of the well known forces arrayed on either side.

The concept of "victimless" crime depends entirely on how you define "victim." Are the spouses, children, siblings and parents of a hopeless drunk victims? I say they are. Perhaps not in a criminal sense, although certainly some drunks victimize people criminally, too. To me, this phony distinction about "victimless" crimes is mostly bumper sticker stuff, what a fraternity brother called "********t logic."

With alcohol more or less legal everywhere, we have tens of thousands of innocent people killed every year and thousands of others grievously injured. One assumes those totals would increase if we "legalized" drugs. And what kind of society do we have in which a subset of our population spends all day every day either high or planning when to make the next trip to the official government pusher? Do we subsidize those junkies? Over the strong moral and religious objections of millions of Americans?

If I could, I would wave a magic wand to eliminate the knowledge and desire for both alcohol and drugs from our little brains. I can't, of course. And I confess to having conflicting feelings on this issue. I'll say this, those who preach "legalizing" drugs as a sort of magic bullet are, IMHO, engaging in magical thinking. "Legalizing" drugs would create a tar baby of problems down the road. Enforcement, subsidies, taxation, distribution, legal liability, etc.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

This guys "church" has something like 150 members. Real significant..... He's getting his 15 minutes of fame. Ignore the idiot.

This is one case where the nooz media should have spiked the story.

I don't disagree. I think the significance is that the story has traction overseas. At least according to what I read.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

exactly, don't give him a platform

A-men, brother. Actually, he has only 50 "parishoners," about the same number as Westboro. Ignore them. Completely.

I asked a boss once what his policy was on calling in sick. He said "call me from the emergency room." That's about right. Call us when someone takes a shot at you or blows up your "church," we'll be right over.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

I don't disagree. I think the significance is that the story has traction overseas. At least according to what I read.

Perhaps, but it's not necessary to interview this Christian thug to tell that story. Plus, almost anything can get some Muslim dipsticks into a lather. Take "flushing Korans down the toilet" for example. Never happened. That didn't stop some of 'em from having a stroke.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

A-men, brother. Actually, he has only 50 "parishoners," about the same number as Westboro. Ignore them. Completely.

Funny you would compare the two...

Westboro protesters, who were carrying signs saying “God hates Israel” and “Bloody Obama,” stood with signs outside Trinity United and UF Hillel. They arrived at each location and, amid cheers from counter protesters, left close to times specified by a picketing schedule posted online by the church.

At the entrance to Trinity United off of Northwest 53rd Avenue, the Westboro group also was joined by about 30 members of the Dove World Outreach Center, said Gainesville police monitoring the protest. Many were wearing the shirt with the words “Islam is of the Devil,” the same words on a sign that members had posted outside their church in July of 2009.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

"Legalizing" drugs would create a tar baby of problems down the road. Enforcement, subsidies, taxation, distribution, legal liability, etc.

I think it would exchange one tar baby for another, just as ending Prohibition did.

Arguments about legalization also become quickly confused unless it's agreed upon up front what would be legalized. Pot and heroin are very different breeds of cat. I can see great benefit in legalizing the former (addition by subtraction of all the law enforcement waste) but no benefit in the latter.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

So why don't we outlaw alcohol again?

Perhaps its because you get things like 28,000 drug related murders in Mexico since 2007 due to prohibition.

I think this is a very good case for States Rights. Let some state legalize pot and see what happens. See if more people break laws while high and/or violence drops because there isn't the huge markup anymore. If it turns out to be a net positive other states can jump on board. If not, they can continue on their current path.

I'm not arguing for or against legalization of drugs nor for/against prohibition of alcohol. I'm just pointing out that your argument that "Prohibition = horrible crime and Legalization = no crime whatsoever" is a tad too simplistic.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

To believe drug legalization will be beneficial to the country is to believe that everybody already is doing all the drugs they please without any regard for the law. I find that hard to believe personally. IMHO the threat of penalties such as jail, loss of employment, or fines keeps people from either using drugs or using them as often as they'd like to.

So, the question I always ask is, how is making drug use cheaper and more available going to solve the drug problem? How do you tell kids not to use drugs when its openly done all around them? How does legalizing this prevent murderous cartels who supply the product from having an incentive to control distribution even more? You'll still have fights over "turf". You'll still have people committing crimes to get money to buy drugs. The problem is this will be exacerbated. Yes, less people will be in jail for possession, but more will be in for robbery, assault, etc. That doesn't even get into things like driving while on narcotics, which will most likely increase and be tougher to detect unless the cops start giving out urine tests on the scene.

Legalizing drugs only benefits those who sell drugs and those who use drugs. The rest of us get to clean up the mess.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

Legalizing drugs only benefits those who sell drugs and those who use drugs. The rest of us get to clean up the mess.

How does it benefit those that sell drugs? The price goes down, growing marajuana for personal use because legal, we could all grow our own pretty cheap. How do selleres getting propped up by legalizing something? Cartels would lose their leverage overnight because anyone could start growing it, selling it cheap or just keeping it for themselves. Maybe its better for those that use but I highly doubt my job would let me smoke even if it was legal, just like I can't drink and drive, etc. Legalizing drugs, benefits users and tax collectors

 

[Jon]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

This is one case where the nooz media should have spiked the story.

Instead we're going to have Olberman ranting like a retard in a dumby barn and Glen Beck's black board bonanza of fail!

Yee hah.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

Instead we're going to have Olberman ranting like a retard in a dumby barn and Glen Beck's black board bonanza of fail!

They should co-host a show. That I would watch.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

To believe drug legalization will be beneficial to the country is to believe that everybody already is doing all the drugs they please without any regard for the law. I find that hard to believe personally. IMHO the threat of penalties such as jail, loss of employment, or fines keeps people from either using drugs or using them as often as they'd like to.

This is pointless. moral idea vs facts. Just look at the numbers and you would come to pragmatic conclusion. And if you want to lower DUI fatality maybe we need harsher sentences for repeat DUI offenders since they are the leading cause. And in most states urine or blood test is done if there was a serious accident.

$2.5 trillion spent over 40 years. highest incarceration rate in the world. and our kids % use as much today as they did in yesteryear. Hey, it's a success, we will keep trying till forever because what will we tell our kids.

Maybe it's time we faced the truth. told the truth. and embraced the truth.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XV: Now, with 20% more rage

This is pointless. moral idea vs facts. Just look at the numbers and you would come to pragmatic conclusion. And if you want to lower DUI fatality maybe we need harsher sentences for repeat DUI offenders since they are the leading cause. And in most states urine or blood test is done if there was a serious accident.

$2.5 trillion spent over 40 years. highest incarceration rate in the world. and our kids % use as much today as they did in yesteryear. Hey, it's a success, we will keep trying till forever because what will we tell our kids.

Maybe it's time we faced the truth. told the truth. and embraced the truth.

You're asking way too much when politics is involved...