Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Is anyone here part of that percentage? Remember, no one can possibly know best other than yourself, so let's go with self-identification only

I am, but unlike most I'm an idiot on purpose...not by design.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Which, as we've already determined just by asking you, is a percentage of the population which you do not belong to.

Waitaminute... if you ask around, though, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who's a member of that 70-80% of the population, but they'll swear it exists.

Is anyone here part of that percentage? Remember, no one can possibly know best other than yourself, so let's go with self-identification only.

Like I said - that's the problem. 70-80% of population are idiots, but YOU aren't. Of course you aren't.

Considering this is a board of college hockey fans who have internet access and have disposable income, odds are that most members of this board probably fall into the 20-30% based on simple self-selection (college graduates or beyond; ability to read, write, and use a computer). That said, there are plenty of idiots on here.

Does it strike you as elitist?

No, it strikes me as meritorious. If you have to be elite to pass a simple civics exam, then this country's in worse shape than I thought.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Considering this is a board of college hockey fans who have internet access and have disposable income, odds are that most members of this board probably fall into the 20-30% based on simple self-selection (college graduates or beyond; ability to read, write, and use a computer). That said, there are plenty of idiots on here.

You're failing to understand what I'm getting at. The people that you will claim are idiots are highly unlikely to self-identify as such. You do not self-identify as such either. Therefore, who's to say someone else out there doesn't think YOU'RE an idiot? And who's to say they're wrong, you?

Large swaths of Africa and the Middle East are full of people who have never been to college, are illiterate, and have never seen a computer in their lives. Are they all idiots?

This is the problem we get into when we simply declare ourselves to be geniuses and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. It's also the way the executive branch is being run today, so it's no surprise.

No, it strikes me as meritorious. If you have to be elite to pass a simple civics exam, then this country's in worse shape than I thought.

No, you don't have to be elite to pass a simple civics exam, but if you know you CAN pass it and then demand that others pass it as well to be entitled to the same rights as you, that does seem somewhat elitist.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Elitism sucks until you need surgery.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Are they all idiots?

No, they just have different proxies to help sort the idiots from the non-idiots. I didn't say all non-idiots went to college and used computers; I said the combination of those factors simply allow an assumption that, generally speaking, more people on here are more likely to be non-idiots. Nor did I say all college graduates who use computers are non-idiots, I've certainly known my share of idiots who fit both descriptions.

No, you don't have to be elite to pass a simple civics exam, but if you know you CAN pass it and then demand that others pass it as well to be entitled to the same rights as you, that does seem somewhat elitist.

If you think I'm being elitist, then fine. I can handle that. I disagree, but frankly the founding fathers were extremely elitist, so at least I'm hanging out with the right crowd.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

No, they just have different proxies to help sort the idiots from the non-idiots. I didn't say all non-idiots went to college and used computers; I said the combination of those factors simply allow an assumption that, generally speaking, more people on here are more likely to be non-idiots. Nor did I say all college graduates who use computers are non-idiots, I've certainly known my share of idiots who fit both descriptions.

So therefore, in this country, you've established that you're not an idiot because you have material items, can read, and have had others tell you that you're not an idiot - i.e., you have a college degree and a law degree. And this means you're not an idiot. Am I trackin' here?

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

So therefore, in this country, you've established that you're not an idiot because you have material items, can read, and have had others tell you that you're not an idiot - i.e., you have a college degree and a law degree. And this means you're not an idiot. Am I trackin' here?

No, it means that I'm more likely to not be an idiot than someone without those characteristics.

Or do you not think that all else being equal, a doctor is less likely to be an idiot than a career waiter?

There is a correlation between groups A & B. That doesn't mean all members of Group A are part of Group B, or vice versa. It simply means that where X = A, then the chance that X = B is higher.

Just go refresh your memory about those Mickey Mouse graphs from elementary math classes.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

That's how I used to think until I started actually meeting the "idiots." From up close:

1. The members themselves are usually ciphers and hood ornaments -- methods of collecting contributions and votes. There are a few truly decisive people: the president, a half dozen cabinet positions (although undersecretaries are usually the real leaders), a half dozen committee chairs. The other folks you see on CSPAN are fungibles.

2. The senior staff make all the work-a-day decisions and most of the important ones. When "vacancies" occur (the polite Beltway expression to describe death, retirement, or, worse, losing an election) senior staff with influence and experience land other jobs or join executive agencies, so the knowledge base stays intact. Senior staff are very, very smart -- top 1% in the top 1% of schools smart -- and very, very savvy -- shiv in your back if you mess with them savvy. They effectively are the government, affiliation matters less to them than contacts, and ideology is viewed as a game for keeping the rubes in line.

3. "Politicals," usually campaign staff or relatives of big donors, are given impressive titles with zero policymaking power. They disappear immediately after a vacancy because they never had any capital or knowledge to begin with.

Those are the rules of the game as it's really played, and they likely have been ever since direct election of Senators, if not before. The process makes the members look more idiotic than they really are, probably, but their distribution of intelligence is likely identical with their constituents.

Have to disagree with you in one regard...maybe staffers are top 1% but they weren't top 1% in every aspect at which their master is voting or sitting on committee...the staffers for folks on the finance and banking committees weren't all finance majors, environmental protection aren't staffed by engineers, health and medical not by those with medical degrees....many of the 1% you are speaking of were poli sci majors or liberal arts etc.

The top 1% in business schools aren't hoping to get that big position as a junior staffer for the junior senator.

Now, if it was suggested that the committees should have some kind of permanent staff who actually could analyze data and come up with a solution other than what the party talking points say they should be then that would be a start

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

No, it means that I'm more likely to not be an idiot than someone without those characteristics.

Or do you not think that all else being equal, a doctor is less likely to be an idiot than a career waiter?

I think there are plenty of idiot doctors out there. I think there are plenty of smart career waiters. I know I'd much rather listen to the latter than the former. And that's the problem with "all else being equal, doctors are less likely to be idiots."

Which gets me back to my assertion that you're still avoiding: that the common practice of "I'm smart, but you guys are idiots" is commonplace and a source of a great many problems.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

To paraphrase Dave Barry: the one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, deep inside, we ALL believe we are of above average intelligence.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

The top 1% in business schools aren't hoping to get that big position as a junior staffer for the junior senator.

Now, if it was suggested that the committees should have some kind of permanent staff who actually could analyze data and come up with a solution other than what the party talking points say they should be then that would be a start

One of the recent criticisms of the SEC and CFTC is that they have far too many lawyers, and too few people trained in finance and mathematics to properly monitor companies and instruments. A similar remark was made to me by one of our lobbyists of congressional staffers when Dodd-Frank was rearing its very ugly head. Smart people, but not where it counts.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

To paraphrase Dave Barry: the one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, deep inside, we ALL believe we are of above average intelligence.

or Garrison Keillor : where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

I'll take someone with common sense over a Mensa type with no common sense any day of the week.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

I'll take someone with common sense over a Mensa type with no common sense any day of the week.

"Too stupid to be president"

Eisenhower
Reagan
Ford
Bush II

(Nobody would EVER say that about Nixon)


"Too smart not to be president"

Carter
Gore
Dukakis
Kerry
Mondale

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

I'll take someone with common sense over a Mensa type with no common sense any day of the week.

That's not usually the choice. The brightest people I've met have invariably been the most sensible.

Also, common sense is what tells us the earth is flat.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

"Too smart not to be president"

Carter
Gore
Dukakis
Kerry
Mondale

You forgot Owebama - quickly approaching Carterian levels of epic fail.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

That's not usually the choice. The brightest people I've met have invariably been the most sensible.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?a...as_yhi=&as_sdt=1.&as_sdtp=on&as_sdts=47&hl=en

the smartest people once told us that it was incumbent to build a better smarter society.... through controlling breeding.

Usually they just say "it is incumbent to build a better smarter society... through controlling"... now they just find a more palatable way to fill the blanks. In the end its always about control and being smarter than others. So, really, in the end its all about them.

edit: going on a Glenn Beck angle... I think the Eugenicists were the first ones who adamantly believed you could engineer a more perfect moral society. Its an interesting accompaniment to Marxism which envisioned the final governing operational model... but Marxism itself is nothing more than an attempt to constrain envy by meting out a harsh version equality. Once you have the operational model then the only thing left is to optimize the society. In either case, these are takes on both jags... without Eugenics we wouldn't have such a strong core belief that society is perfectible and in our grasp. I doubt previous generations believed that it was within their reach. Of course, we should note... its been within their reach for around 100 years at this point... just a little more... just a little more.

 

[Slap Shot]

And clearly that's what Obama and his ilk strive for.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

That's not usually the choice. The brightest people I've met have invariably been the most sensible..

Doesn't seem to fit our current president.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Doesn't seem to fit our current president.

How do you know that Kepler's met him?