Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

[geezer]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The problem is that many employers force people to retire at 65

if this is the case, I suspect they can use this seemingly arbitrary number because it happens to be the age at which SS kicks in fully. If that changes to 67, forced retirement norms would probably follow... or yes, if you take that job, plan ahead.
I'd get rid of it altogether as a retirement plan, let people save on their own, and use SS as insurance against disability and extreme poverty.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I'd make it illegal (or if it is illegal, enforce the law) for mandatory age retirements. If someone is capable of doing their job, I don't care what their odometer looks like.

As for SS, I'm trying to come up with ideas to reform it rather than crash the whole bus. And yes, for later birth dates, I believe that the full benefit ages increase as well.

 

[collegehcky2]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Well, by the time those born in 1990 start drawing on my rough-cut proposal, I'm going to be 86, and given my gene pool, I've a coin-flip chance at best of avoiding the assumption of room temperature as well. But those born in the 80's and 90's and beyond are going to have to figure out how to take care of themselves on their own. Is it cold-hearted? You're god**** right it is. But sometimes it's necessary. If they can't figure out how to get an education, learn a skill, something, anything (within reason) to find some way to make a good living, they're going to be screwed anyways. I see it in my own family with cousins in my own age group.

Sorry. That's where this world is headed. It's been headed that way for a while. That was made very clear to me in the early 1980's by my father, who worked at Ford Motor Company. He was very quick (and in a very sharp and short tone) to remind me that if I had any ideas that I was going to graduate from high school and work in a factory without any education or trained skill, like he and my grandfathers did, that I was flat-out nuts. We're a helluva long ways from 1966. It's coming to fruition.

Yeah I'm an '89 and I have pretty much resigned to Social Security not being an option. Not a big deal, I'm going to plan as if I will get nothing, which is the safe thing to do anyways.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I'm a '74 and I saw the factories dry up and go away nearly overnight in the 80's in my hometown, leaving my mom's brothers out of work for a while. My father had his farm, and he, his brother, and his sisters' husbands had Big 3 jobs and were darn lucky. Every morning on the way to my office I drive past the factory that employed both of my grandfathers 30+ years ago, and provided for a very nice living for a lot of people in the county.

It's empty.

All I have to do to see the drastic changes is look around. For God's sake, I live in Michigan. We can tell you all about the manufacturing losses and how rough things have gotten. I see the reminders every day. The thing is, we knew this was coming. Around here we had 25+ years notice. My parents were smart enough to plan while they could, and they were blessed that they were born in a time where they could enjoy the benefits of an earlier time, and yet prepare us for the impending changes. Feel free to read that as: kick me squarely in the rear end when I didn't perform accordingly to my abilities in school.

It's now up to my generation and the ones younger than us to take it from there. We've got brains in our heads, too. It's time to use them and make a world for ourselves. Again, we're a long way from 1966. We'd better live accordingly.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Uhh, the Baby Boomers first started drawing social security in 2008, the year they started turning 62. That faucet is already running.

Yes, and already Social Security is now taking in less than they pay out. The times of hiding the deficit behind a $300 billion SS surplus are gone.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So this thing in Egypt, what's our ideal outcome there?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The problem is that many employers force people to retire at 65, and a lot of people aren't productive anyway. Are you planning to force employers to keep/hire people in their 60's, or are we shipping Grandma to work at McDonald's and Burger King? And what happens when there aren't enough jobs in <del>manufacturing</del> flipping burgers to go around?

Yes, but will they still be requiring retirement at age 65 in 40 years? A lot changes in 40 years. If we raise the SS age for 80's babies now, people (employers and employees) will have plenty of time to adjust.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Hindsight is not over yet. since the cost have been hidden via Federal Reserve Bank. So we're like Ireland guaranteeing the banks and shoring up the balance sheet, but all that cost is off the books.

No its not. But many people have a tendency to forget the full situation and think that the only issue was whether to incur costs or not. There was this matter of the financial system on a trajectory to collapse...and yes, the influx of cash, the requirements and the confidence that gave the markets made the difference.

 

[pardonme]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So this thing in Egypt, what's our ideal outcome there?

My ideal outcome is a succesful overthrow, switch to democracy, and election of a somewhat moderate government. I think the US and Israel's ideal outcome is for everything to blow over and keep Mubarak in power.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The problem is that many employers force people to retire at 65, and a lot of people aren't productive anyway. Are you planning to force employers to keep/hire people in their 60's, or are we shipping Grandma to work at McDonald's and Burger King? And what happens when there aren't enough jobs in <del>manufacturing</del> flipping burgers to go around?

Honestly? Yes. When SS was first formed, life expectancy was 62 years on average. Now we're living to 78.4. That's a huge problem. Drop the wage cap, stop paying out benefits to those with a certain threshold of money in retirement accounts and savings, increase the retirement age by 5 years for anyone born after 1980 and index it to life expectancy.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

My ideal outcome is a succesful overthrow, switch to democracy, and election of a somewhat moderate government. I think the US and Israel's ideal outcome is for everything to blow over and keep Mubarak in power.

Right, I guess my thing is, Mubarak is unquestionably a dick, to use the scientific term. However, who replaces him if he does go down? Like it or not, he's been a decent ally right?

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Yes, but will they still be requiring retirement at age 65 in 40 years? A lot changes in 40 years. If we raise the SS age for 80's babies now, people (employers and employees) will have plenty of time to adjust.

An interesting book I read a while back (I forget the name, sorry), suggested that after the boomers die off, there will be a shortage of people to do the regular work, never mind to flip burgers. They theorized that at that point we'll be inviting immigrants to come to the US, simply to keep wages down on a supply and demand basis. Otherwise we'll be paying the buger flippers well above minimum wage.

Just a theory, but an interesting one.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

When SS was first formed, life expectancy was 62 years on average. Now we're living to 78.4.

How much of the change is the reduction in infant and early childhood mortality?

I do think we're living longer, but I'd be more interested in changes in life expectancy distribution for those who hit the workforce... how many people who collect are living longer, how many more people who pay into the system live long enough to collect from it? I don't think overall life expectancy addresses either question.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

How much of the change is the reduction in infant and early childhood mortality?

I do think we're living longer, but I'd be more interested in changes in life expectancy distribution for those who hit the workforce... how many people who collect are living longer, how many more people who pay into the system live long enough to collect from it? I don't think overall life expectancy addresses either question.

Pretty much this. Infant mortality, mothers dying in childbirth, diseases. Deaths from those things have all gone down so life expectancy goes up. Life expectancy figures are usually about as useful for determing how old people will live as the BMI index is for how fat you are. (My grandma and grandpa are both in their late 80's)

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So this thing in Egypt, what's our ideal outcome there?

A really big parking lot.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Right, I guess my thing is, Mubarak is unquestionably a dick, to use the scientific term. However, who replaces him if he does go down? Like it or not, he's been a decent ally right?

So was the Shah.

As soon as the street looks like it's winning, we should flip faster than a Tea Party candidate who wins the election. If we wind up opposing democracies because Exxon has a sweet deal with the incumbent strongman, we'll wind up with more holes in our skyscrapers.

From what I've read, unlike Tunisia or Lebanon, Egypt has very little technocracy so there's a big risk that a populist government will be Islamist, so we had better start making distinctions between "good" theocracies and "bad" theocracies.

Still Egypt has some semblance of governmental stability, so it's in a lot better shape than Yemen, which could be headed for tribal partition or complete Somalia anarchy.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So was the Shah.

As soon as the street looks like it's winning, we should flip faster than a Tea Party candidate who wins the election.

Geez, I don't know about that. That's why I was asking. I mean, what if some nutbar in the Ahmadinejad mold takes over? That's not good right?

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Here's another one: please note that I have not touched any disability claims, nor have I touched Medicare (and I have no idea how we're going to diffuse that time bomb).

Here's what I see as the only viable solution to Medicare. Vouchers

Unfortunately, its probably DOA and we're just going to have to wait for the program to completely implode.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Live coverage from Egypt

While it stays on the air.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Geez, I don't know about that. That's why I was asking. I mean, what if some nutbar in the Ahmadinejad mold takes over? That's not good right?

Right now the street protests are a broad combination of liberal and religious elements. We should encourage that, since it is our best protection against The Revolution being dominated by a radical splinter group. We need to strengthen the Mensheviks for their eventual showdown with the Bolsheviks. Continuing to hammer down the lid on all protest only empowers the crazies (the Iranian example).

The army might be an ally in doing this (if they decide to abandon Mubarek), since their power is civil and they won't want to be rolled up in a religious state.

Edit: oh wow, looks like the ruling party's HQ might be on fire.

Since this is the Obama thread: hopefully Obama will communicate to the liberal elements American support for democratic movements. We have been at least perceived as the enemy of the population of these countries -- this is a great opportunity to begin to turn it around.