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Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

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Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

IMO the joint Bush/Obama bailout of the financial system was surprisingly effective in hindsight. It stabilized a financial system and frankly an economy that were in the process of crashing...and is ending up costing less and in some cases delivering some nice profits to govt coffers.

One of the other lies that they don't tell is that Bush never put the two wars on the accounting books. Obama did that as soon as he took office. So, of course his numbers are going to look worse.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

and it is a lawsuit over an olive pit...what is he suing them for? Did they purposely put an olive pit in there just so he'd break his teeth? the mentality that everything has to be a settlement or a lawsuit is ridiculous. An arbitrator should say "what real damages did you suffer?" , "did you actually pay anything out of pocket?", "do you think they really did this on purpose?" , "how much money do you make?"..."shut up, next case".

How about the woman who was texting and fell into the fountain in the mall, suing the mall for not helping her after she fell in and thinking it was funny. Think there will be a law that all mall fountains must have a 6 foot plexiglass wall around them to prevent stupid people from falling in or the malls just take out all the fountains so they don't get sued by 100 copycats? If you stub your toe on your coffee table, sue Ethan Allen. Bang your head on a kitchen cabinet, sue the developer, the bulder and the cabinet manufacturer. Shut your finger in the car door? There should be a federal sticker showing a hand in the door with a big red circle over it, which is part of the settlement on the $100million dollar suit.

Soon somebody will put forth a bill requiring restaurants to put up olive pit signs letting people know that this is 'An Olive Pit Zone' which will cause every restaurant to spend money on the signs and new olive pit insurance, which they will pass on to consumers. This will suffice until somebody chips a tooth on a peach pit.

Loser Pays
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The CBO is finally saying what everyone has known for a while - Social Security is broke

I don't like the way that is phrased. Social Security didn't go broke.

For those of you who don’t quite understand how the government has been playing a shell game with social security funds for decades now (and who could blame you if you don’t?), what’s happened is this: Social Security had a trust fund into which excess revenues from payroll taxes were placed. Unfortunately, the federal government has been borrowing from that fund to finance other spending.

This right here is what is wrong with government. It should NEVER have been one big pile of money. It should ALWAYS have been separate accounting and ledgers for all aspects of government. The fact that they ripped us off and stoled our SS money to pay for other crap that they evidently couldn't justify collecting taxes on is the very thing that is set us on to bankruptcy.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Valid opinion. But its not like Fortune 500 banks are going to willingly implode because a presidential candidate says the economy is bad.



.

I agree, as I said, the situation was already heading south. I had taken your previous post to say that he wasn't responsible since it didn't start on his shift and I was offering $.02 on that. I don't think any president caused the whole thing themselves...it takes a village to create that combination of events. I don't think we should not enter into justifiable wars based on the economy but the cost should be a factor when deciding to wade into empire building, or destroying. In that sense, Bush made a huge mistake at what turned out to be a terrible time. (although, they 'thought' they'd be out of Iraq in 90 days...they predicted they'd fix the geo-political situation and be home for happy hour - the arrogance of that is criminal).
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I don't like the way that is phrased. Social Security didn't go broke.



This right here is what is wrong with government. It should NEVER have been one big pile of money. It should ALWAYS have been separate accounting and ledgers for all aspects of government. The fact that they ripped us off and stoled our SS money to pay for other crap that they evidently couldn't justify collecting taxes on is the very thing that is set us on to bankruptcy.
+100

And we keep reelecting these bozoes?? But when you have 2 chambers full of lawyers and not accountants, you get what you pay for.

A question - by the time he leaves office, with there be more threads on Obama than Super Bowls?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

IMO the joint Bush/Obama bailout of the financial system was surprisingly effective in hindsight. It stabilized a financial system and frankly an economy that were in the process of crashing...and is ending up costing less and in some cases delivering some nice profits to govt coffers.


Hindsight is not over yet. since the cost have been hidden via Federal Reserve Bank. So we're like Ireland guaranteeing the banks and shoring up the balance sheet, but all that cost is off the books. Probably another reason for our central banks in creating inflationary pressure or those "toxic" assets will be hidden in the central banks for a long time.

Ireland guaranteed their banks and that cost is driving them to (default) borrow from the EU central banks. Since they don't control their currency or have central bank that could cook the books they had to default or borrow.

Iceland let their banks fail and the cost is much lower for them since the creditors had to negotiate lower rates and eat 40-70% loss on the toxic investments or have total loss.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The CBO is finally saying what everyone has known for a while - Social Security is broke

Also, Medicare's chief actuary says Obamacare will add $311M to healthcare costs and shift 14 million people off their current employer-based plan.

CBO is wrong unless Congress did some accounting tricks. SS had $2trillion+ trust fund. Just like government (VA, federal workers) retirement fund had $2-3trillion trust fund in US treasury.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

CBO is wrong unless Congress did some accounting tricks. SS had $2trillion+ trust fund. Just like government (VA, federal workers) retirement fund had $2-3trillion trust fund in US treasury.

You're 100% right, the SSA isn't broke. Reading the report, what's happened is that there is a lack of funds to sufficiently cover payments in the coming years. This year, the first baby boomers turn 65 and start collecting social security. The number of new individuals collecting from the program will only grow over the next 11 years. The payments coming in will be much less than the payments going out. The CBO is essentially saying that as individuals collect social security, they'll be operating in a deficit.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Uhh, the Baby Boomers first started drawing social security in 2008, the year they started turning 62. That faucet is already running.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Uhh, the Baby Boomers first started drawing social security in 2008, the year they started turning 62. That faucet is already running.

Yeah, I'm an idiot and totally forgot they can take at 62 without full payment benefits. Nonetheless, they're really going to start having issues with keeping up in a few years.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

No worries.

Oh, and I agree with your last thought. Somewhere along the line they're going to have to raise the age where you can first draw benefits. 62 was fine when the life expectancy was 67 or so. But now 67 has become 77, and you don't have to look too far to see people well into their 80s and beyond. An entitlement designed to provide for 5 or so years is now providing for 15-20, and sometimes much longer. An adjustment there is going to be in order sometime along the way.

I freely admit that I'm being arbitrary here, but here's an example. I cannot, in good conscience, pull the rug out from people in their 50's, and even in their late 40's, on their retirement. I would not make a change in their benefits at this point.

So a possible, very rough, solution would be that for those born in 1970 (age 40 today) and later, you are not eligible to draw the first penny of social security as we know it until age 64. If you want to make it 65, I will not argue. That puts you out to the year 2034 or 2035 (if you go age 65). Full benefits would also be adjusted upward accordingly. You have at least 24 years to make your necessary adjustments in your retirement planning to cover the 2 or 3 years of lost benefits.

Those of you born after 1980, you do not draw until age 67. You have until 2047, 36 years and change to plan accordingly.

Born in 1990 and beyond? You're waiting until age 70. You've got until 2060. If you cannot make your retirement plans in 50 years, quite frankly, I don't want to hear any kibitzing about it.

In full disclosure, this plan would affect me directly. I was born in 1974, so I would fall into the first bracket.
 
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Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

No worries.

Oh, and I agree with your last thought. Somewhere along the line they're going to have to raise the age where you can first draw benefits. 62 was fine when the life expectancy was 67 or so. But now 67 has become 77, and you don't have to look too far to see people well into their 80s and beyond. An entitlement designed to provide for 5 or so years is now providing for 15-20, and sometimes much longer. An adjustment there is going to be in order sometime along the way.

I freely admit that I'm being arbitrary here, but here's an example. I cannot, in good conscience, pull the rug out from people in their 50's, and even in their late 40's, on their retirement. I would not make a change in their benefits at this point.

So a possible, very rough, solution would be that for those born in 1970 (age 40 today) and later, you are not eligible to draw the first penny of social security as we know it until age 64. If you want to make it 65, I will not argue. That puts you out to the year 2034 or 2035 (if you go age 65). Full benefits would also be adjusted upward accordingly. You have at least 24 years to make your necessary adjustments in your retirement planning.

Those of you born after 1980, you do not draw until age 67. You have until 2047, 36 years and change to plan accordingly.

Born in 1990 and beyond? You're waiting until age 70. You've got until 2060.

In full disclosure, I was born in 1974, so I would fall into the first bracket.

The problem is that many employers force people to retire at 65, and a lot of people aren't productive anyway. Are you planning to force employers to keep/hire people in their 60's, or are we shipping Grandma to work at McDonald's and Burger King? And what happens when there aren't enough jobs in <del>manufacturing</del> flipping burgers to go around?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

No worries.

Oh, and I agree with your last thought. Somewhere along the line they're going to have to raise the age where you can first draw benefits. 62 was fine when the life expectancy was 67 or so. But now 67 has become 77, and you don't have to look too far to see people well into their 80s and beyond. An entitlement designed to provide for 5 or so years is now providing for 15-20, and sometimes much longer. An adjustment there is going to be in order sometime along the way.

I freely admit that I'm being arbitrary here, but here's an example. I cannot, in good conscience, pull the rug out from people in their 50's, and even in their late 40's, on their retirement. I would not make a change in their benefits at this point.

So a possible, very rough, solution would be that for those born in 1970 (age 40 today) and later, you are not eligible to draw the first penny of social security as we know it until age 64. If you want to make it 65, I will not argue. That puts you out to the year 2034 or 2035 (if you go age 65). Full benefits would also be adjusted upward accordingly. You have at least 24 years to make your necessary adjustments in your retirement planning to cover the 2 or 3 years of lost benefits.

Those of you born after 1980, you do not draw until age 67. You have until 2047, 36 years and change to plan accordingly.

Born in 1990 and beyond? You're waiting until age 70. You've got until 2060. If you cannot make your retirement plans in 50 years, quite frankly, I don't want to hear any kibitzing about it.

In full disclosure, this plan would affect me directly. I was born in 1974, so I would fall into the first bracket.

I agree 100%. I think they'll eventually have to get something like that in place, although what would be smarter would be having stiff monetary penalties for collecting early, or only having a partial retirement option.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The problem is that many employers force people to retire at 65, and a lot of people aren't productive anyway. Are you planning to force employers to keep/hire people in their 60's, or are we shipping Grandma to work at McDonald's and Burger King? And what happens when there aren't enough jobs in <del>manufacturing</del> flipping burgers to go around?

Well, we can keep letting people draw at 62, live to 82, have 3 workers paying for 1 benefit where we once had 5 or 6, and we can sink the whole boat right to the bottom of the ocean in the process. You got a better idea? Means testing and a few tax increases isn't going to cut it.

And again. I'm not pulling the rug out from people who are even close to retirement. For those who just turned 40 last year, they've got 23+ years to make up for 3 years of lost benefits. Those younger have longer. Things are going to get ****ty, plain and simple.
 
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Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Well, we can keep letting people draw at 62, live to 82, and we can sink the whole boat in the process. You got a better idea? Means testing and a few tax increases isn't going to cut it.

I think that the biggest problem is that any change will be subject to scrutiny from the largest lobbying group in the country, AARP.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

And here's the kicker: we talked about this problem in one of my finance classes. 15 years ago. How much farther are we going to kick this can down the road?

Here's another one: please note that I have not touched any disability claims, nor have I touched Medicare (and I have no idea how we're going to diffuse that time bomb).
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

For what it's worth, Rand Paul is set to introduce a plan that involves raising the age and means testing.

“You tell a 25-year-old that he’s going to be 70 when he gets Medicare or Social Security and I think he’ll say, ‘No big deal, I wasn’t positive I was going to get it anyway.’ So I think young people are going to be more than willing to embrace this,” he said. “Young people are more than willing and ready.”

Darn right.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Well, we can keep letting people draw at 62, live to 82, have 3 workers paying for 1 benefit where we once had 5 or 6, and we can sink the whole boat right to the bottom of the ocean in the process. You got a better idea? Means testing and a few tax increases isn't going to cut it.

And again. I'm not pulling the rug out from people who are even close to retirement. For those who just turned 40 last year, they've got 23+ years to make up for 3 years of lost benefits. Those younger have longer. Things are going to get ****ty, plain and simple.

I understand things are going to get ****ty...I'm pointing out that there are questions that have to be answered about this solution. I don't care anymore, I've accepted that I'm going to shuffle off this mortal coil before I come close to drawing Social Security so whatever the solution is doesn't really matter to me.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Well, by the time those born in 1990 start drawing on my rough-cut proposal, I'm going to be 86, and given my gene pool, I've a coin-flip chance at best of avoiding the assumption of room temperature as well. But those born in the 80's and 90's and beyond are going to have to figure out how to take care of themselves on their own. Is it cold-hearted? You're god**** right it is. But sometimes it's necessary. If they can't figure out how to get an education, learn a skill, something, anything (within reason) to find some way to make a good living, they're going to be screwed anyways. I see it in my own family with cousins in my own age group.

Sorry. That's where this world is headed. It's been headed that way for a while. That was made very clear to me in the early 1980's by my father, who worked at Ford Motor Company. He was very quick (and in a very sharp and short tone) to remind me that if I had any ideas that I was going to graduate from high school and work in a factory without any education or trained skill, like he and my grandfathers did, that I was flat-out nuts. We're a helluva long ways from 1966. It's coming to fruition.
 
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