Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I don't buy that most state workers make more than the private sector. I know is job sectors I deal with, the flow of workers is almost always from the state to private employers, with higher wages being a primary driver.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Some of us have moved ahead in time from 100 years ago or so. But apparently not all of us.

Some of us would rather not go back.

Jewish women made up the majority of workers in the garment industry, especially in the dress and shirtwaist trade. Poor working conditions, low wages, and frequent layoffs propelled many into the International Ladies Garment Workers Union. On March 25, 1911, 146 garment workers lost their lives in the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire in New York's Greenwich Village. Many were trapped inside because the escape exits had been locked to keep the girls in and the union organizers out. The fire was one of New York's worst industrial accidents and was covered by newspapers across the nation, including the Oklahoma State Capital, whose March 26, 1911 front page is displayed here. Institution: Library of Congress,

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Some of us would rather not go back.

As I said in the other thread, you really need to work on your scare tactics. They are way too obvious and unconvincing. You need to be more subtle to gradually influence people to be scared of something that they in reality don't need to be scared about. Nobody is proposing anything that remotely takes us back to the days of 14-hour child labor, etc. But, hey, that's why someone like you tries to use baseless scare tactics.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Everything I've heard is that public sector wages have been growing at faster rate even during this recession, why should public sector wages be going up when revenue is going down?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Everything I've heard is that public sector wages have been growing at faster rate even during this recession, why should public sector wages be going up when revenue is going down?

Haven't heard that in this part of the country, more the opposite. With the budget crunches on states the last 3-4 years, it's hard to believe there would be any sort of raises in that period, but rather more likely cuts. That's what I've heard about, though I suppose there might be contracts in place for raises going out a few years that carried into the economic downturn.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

If I remember correctly, the actual wages isn't where the disparity comes in. You factor in all the benefits they get, and it isn't even close.

They pay 6% of the cost of their healthcare and less than 1% of their pay is contributed to their pensions. Why doesn't everybody check with their employer regarding what % of your healthcare you pay? I'm not aware of any sizable public company paying 94% of employee healthcare costs. Certainly not one with 300k employees, no profits etc.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

As I said in the other thread, you really need to work on your scare tactics. They are way too obvious and unconvincing. You need to be more subtle to gradually influence people to be scared of something that they in reality don't need to be scared about. Nobody is proposing anything that remotely takes us back to the days of 14-hour child labor, etc. But, hey, that's why someone like you tries to use baseless scare tactics.

Really?

According to the bill's official summary, children under the age of 14 would no longer be barred from employment. They'd also be able to work all hours of the day, no longer need a work permit from their school and be able to work at motels and resorts so long as they're given a place to lay their weary heads each night. Moreover, businesses that employ children would no longer be subject to inspections from the Division of Labor Standards.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

As I said in the other thread, you really need to work on your scare tactics. They are way too obvious and unconvincing. You need to be more subtle to gradually influence people to be scared of something that they in reality don't need to be scared about. Nobody is proposing anything that remotely takes us back to the days of 14-hour child labor, etc. But, hey, that's why someone like you tries to use baseless scare tactics.

Errrr......wrong. Thanks, Priceless. I remembered that was posted a while ago too.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Guys come on...that can't be true Bob would have told us if everything he was saying was false

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Some of us would rather not go back.

Major props for bringing up the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, a mere century ago. And aren't we all grateful that Jimmy Hoffa and Dave Beck put an end to that exploitation? You remind me of Shooter in "Hoosiers," caging quarters by reminding people of the shot he almost made when he was 16.

Apart from standing up to the outrageous demands of union goons, what can you offer to substantiate your implied and expressed scare tactics? Nada. Really, this is all so childish.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Guys - the last thing we need to worry about is 14 year olds working too much...when was the last time you saw one doing a paper route, cutting grass for spending money or putting away the dishes? My oldest referees soccer games and babysits and might be 1 of a handful of kids I know that actually work (and she isn't exactly digging ditches)

That being said, one would think the proponents of change would be smarter than to leave themselves exposed to such an easy criticism. There still should be enough labor rules and regs to prevent us from returning to the days of yore.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Guys - the last thing we need to worry about is 14 year olds working too much...when was the last time you saw one doing a paper route, cutting grass for spending money or putting away the dishes? My oldest referees soccer games and babysits and might be 1 of a handful of kids I know that actually work (and she isn't exactly digging ditches)

That being said, one would think the proponents of change would be smarter than to leave themselves exposed to such an easy criticism. There still should be enough labor rules and regs to prevent us from returning to the days of yore.

The fact is, unions have no concern whatsoever about children working. They hate the two tiered minimum wage, which is what kids new to the workforce get when they're employed in fast food joints. If unions can eliminate that lower wage, then the fast food joints, faced with paying adult wages, will hire adults. And whole new vistas of union goonery are opened, especially if the prospective union members can't vote secretly on what their preferences are. Let's at least try to have some baseline honesty in this discussion.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Guys - the last thing we need to worry about is 14 year olds working too much...when was the last time you saw one doing a paper route, cutting grass for spending money or putting away the dishes? My oldest referees soccer games and babysits and might be 1 of a handful of kids I know that actually work (and she isn't exactly digging ditches)

That being said, one would think the proponents of change would be smarter than to leave themselves exposed to such an easy criticism. There still should be enough labor rules and regs to prevent us from returning to the days of yore.

As was pointed out previously, currently the cutoff is 14. This law removes ANY cutoff at all. Technically, as soon as the little bugger is out of the womb s/he could go to work (but that really wouldn't be practical).

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Guys come on...that can't be true Bob would have told us if everything he was saying was false

Bob would never lie to us!

 

[busterman62]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Really?

I'm truly missing something in this case. The bill summary is exactly as you have quoted and I agree that by reading just the summary, it sure looks like MO is ready to open up the kiddie sweatshops. But when I read the entire bill, I just don't see where it does anything like what the summary says. It seems to point out when kids can't work. Now, I'm more than willing to admit my ignorance here since I'm no lawyer or politician, but I just don't see it. Please help me out here.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Wait. "The adults"??? You mean the state legislature??? You can't be suggesting that the folks in charge of creating the state budget, the state budget that's been in the red for years and years, those guys, that they should also be in charge of the school budgets? Because they could fix them? Jesus ****ing Christ, you're either beyond stupid or a prime candidate for a career as a standup comedian.

Heh. I believe "the adults are in charge" is an Obama-ism. (Or maybe I'm totally misattributing it.)

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Isn't Wisconsin required to have a balanced budget, like all states other than Vermont? If so, what's all this talk about Wisconsin being in the red for many years and them not balancing their budget? I understand there's accounting nuances and all, but big picture I assume they have to be roughly in balance each year like most states.

Yeah, but like Scooby (sort of) said, there's all sorts of accounting tricks and bonds and loans and things you can do to kick the can down the road.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Heh. I believe "the adults are in charge" is an Obama-ism. (Or maybe I'm totally misattributing it.)

I believe President Carter, excuse me, President Obama is the one who said: "electiions have consequences." Most of us didn't hear the asterisk for Wisconsin.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I think Cheney said it first, to be fair. Obama echoed it though.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I think Cheney said it first, to be fair. Obama echoed it though.

"fair" is my middle name.