Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Could you please provide the link that shows the "fact that Fox "News" deliberately lied?" Seems to me that correctly reporting the poll results later in the show and then apologizing for the error just exhibits Fox's incompetence rather than subterfuge. But, then again, I'm sure I'm probably missing something and you'll be happy to direct me to the proof that Faux lied.

Did you watch the video clip? Did the host not quote the poll results exactly backwards and then make a political point based on that lie? I know that some people have a problem seeing that Fox "News" regularly distorts the facts to suit them, but this is pretty straight-forward. Sure, they issued an apology after the fact. And I'm sure they've issued apologies every time they've "accidentally" identified Republicans who have been caught up in scandals as Democrats.

And you apparently are under the impression that they are a legitimate news organization. They aren't. The guy who runs the place said it. They have chosen a side and have an agenda to match it.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So, it stands to reason that we could speed the whole thing up, kill all the smokers, solve long-term Social security/Medicare issues and balance the budget. Win-Win

The reason it's a net positive is because they spend their lives working and paying tobacco taxes (of course, the net positive requires these taxes to be sufficiently high to offset the negatives). Then they die 10 years on average before the rest of us do, so we get their productive years and don't have to pay for as many of their unproductive ones.

The biggest long-term financial challenge is dealing with people living longer on average *and* still expecting to retire in their 60s. We simply don't have enough people in the labor pool to support that given the current taxrates and benefit payouts.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Did you watch the video clip? Did the host not quote the poll results exactly backwards and then make a political point based on that lie? I know that some people have a problem seeing that Fox "News" regularly distorts the facts to suit them, but this is pretty straight-forward. Sure, they issued an apology after the fact. And I'm sure they've issued apologies every time they've "accidentally" identified Republicans who have been caught up in scandals as Democrats.

And you apparently are under the impression that they are a legitimate news organization. They aren't. The guy who runs the place said it. They have chosen a side and have an agenda to match it.

Watched the entire clip. I never once saw any proof that they "deliberately lied" as you've said. They corrected themselves and showed the appropriate results later. IMO this is evidence of incompetence but you say it's a FACT that they deliberately (?? redundant adverb ??) LIED. I'm just asking to see those facts. Do you have a copy of an internal Fox memo stating their employees are to falsely report facts? Is there a video? Just show me the link. It shouldn't be a problem since it's a fact and not just your opinion.

FWIW, I'm not of the opinion that Fox is a legitimate news organization. I really don't have much of any opinion about Fox. Never watch it. In fact, the only time I really pay any attention to it at all is when you guys post about it. Get my news from BBC and my laughs from MSNBC.

 

[omahasioux1]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I would just like to thank Obama and his crooks for four dollar gas, 10 percent unemployment, 4 dead old people sailing, thugs taking over a state house, teachers calling in sick and then making an a ss of themselves, and not a right to work state called democracy.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

False.

Lots of good points made in that link. Among them:

Wait. Did you just say that the quote was false...then reference a table that showed it was true?

As in...Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. Those states rank 45th, 48th, 49th, 38th, and 34th, in average SAT scores, respectively. Wisconsin is 3rd.

The funny thing is that the way the article shows that Wisconsin is a pretty medeocre state is by showing that it reached the top quarter percentile scores in the ACT...which they then admit is 'not bad'. In they end, the article needs to completely shift gears and look at something else entirely different in order to try to make their point. Not a particularly convincing piece of journalism in my book.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I would just like to thank Obama and his crooks for four dollar gas, 10 percent unemployment, 4 dead old people sailing, thugs taking over a state house, teachers calling in sick and then making an a ss of themselves, and not a right to work state called democracy.

You are drunk right? Dear lord please tell me you are drunk!

Listening to the tape of Walker talking about hiring people to cause problems at the rallies is pretty hilarious. (especially when he says they didnt do it because they thought if it got out of hand people would push harder for him to settle) Also his idea of fraudulent negotiating with the Dem leaders makes him look real good. I am sure a couple people here will make up some reason to defend this tactic or justify it or even just tell us it is being overblown but Walker is so stupid he was caught on tape. Christ even Dubya wouldnt be that dumb. He undermined his own actions and opinions and now the whole world knows what a conniving d-bag he is. It was bad enough that he still refused to give up his holy quest to end collective bargaining after the unions made the concessions he wanted (proving his bs about doing it for the budget and not to break the unions was a bunch of mularky) but now no one is going to trust a word this guy says.

Congrats Sconnie you guys got yourself a winner. I thought it was bad when we elected Dayton but you just had to top us didnt you

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You are drunk right? Dear lord please tell me you are drunk!

Drunk and having one's worldview strained through the sieve of right wing media look the same.

Let it go.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You are drunk right? Dear lord please tell me you are drunk!

Listening to the tape of Walker talking about hiring people to cause problems at the rallies is pretty hilarious. (especially when he says they didnt do it because they thought if it got out of hand people would push harder for him to settle) Also his idea of fraudulent negotiating with the Dem leaders makes him look real good. I am sure a couple people here will make up some reason to defend this tactic or justify it or even just tell us it is being overblown but Walker is so stupid he was caught on tape. Christ even Dubya wouldnt be that dumb. He undermined his own actions and opinions and now the whole world knows what a conniving d-bag he is. It was bad enough that he still refused to give up his holy quest to end collective bargaining after the unions made the concessions he wanted (proving his bs about doing it for the budget and not to break the unions was a bunch of mularky) but now no one is going to trust a word this guy says.

Congrats Sconnie you guys got yourself a winner. I thought it was bad when we elected Dayton but you just had to top us didnt you

Dubya's handlers were smarter. They put their go-between in the vice presidential position. You don't have to worry about phone calls then.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

No, I don't give two hoots about what FOX does. I've just seen the SAT scores thing get mentioned a lot, and just wanted to point out that it's wrong.

That stats themselves aren't wrong - it's not like Texas is in fact 1st in education instead of 40-something. It's just the correlation might not be as meaningful as people are claiming.

That said, I do take issue with one criticism though; namely the one where the other states have worse educational achievement because they are poorer. That's a two way street. You can easily say they are poorer because they have worse educational achievement. It's kind of a chicken-egg thing, so that doesn't absolve the states completely.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I would just like to thank Obama and his crooks for four dollar gas, 10 percent unemployment, 4 dead old people sailing, thugs taking over a state house, teachers calling in sick and then making an a ss of themselves, and not a right to work state called democracy.

Me too. Thanks Obama. It's all your fault.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Wait. Did you just say that the quote was false...then reference a table that showed it was true?

As in...Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. Those states rank 45th, 48th, 49th, 38th, and 34th, in average SAT scores, respectively. Wisconsin is 3rd.

By "False" he means "True." A common mistake.

Watched the entire clip. I never once saw any proof that they "deliberately lied" as you've said. They corrected themselves and showed the appropriate results later. IMO this is evidence of incompetence but you say it's a FACT that they deliberately (?? redundant adverb ??) LIED. I'm just asking to see those facts. Do you have a copy of an internal Fox memo stating their employees are to falsely report facts? Is there a video? Just show me the link. It shouldn't be a problem since it's a fact and not just your opinion.

FWIW, I'm not of the opinion that Fox is a legitimate news organization. I really don't have much of any opinion about Fox. Never watch it. In fact, the only time I really pay any attention to it at all is when you guys post about it. Get my news from BBC and my laughs from MSNBC.

The host of the segment talks about the poll. He poses the question and gives the (backwards) results. You think he just made that up on the fly? That was the first time anyone at Fox "News" had seen the poll and just threw it together and it was an honest mistake? Really? If you're that gullible, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn that would just be perfect for you.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless, I think you're seeing ghosts here. Honestly. Fox News might not be impartial, but that doesn't mean they're above mistakes or that there is some vast right wing conspiracy.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless, I think you're seeing ghosts here. Honestly. Fox News might not be impartial, but that doesn't mean they're above mistakes or that there is some vast right wing conspiracy.

This goes beyond just making a mistake. The host of the segment uses the erroneous poll results to question Obama's handling of the situation and to "prove" to a guest that what he just said is wrong - when in fact what the guest just said is spot on. You really think they didn't have meetings where they talked about topics that might come up when discussing the Wisconsin situation, maybe even discussed this very poll, and no one in the room said "Hey, we've got the numbers wrong." If the chyron was wrong, that would be one thing. When the host of the segment uses the false poll results to back up his point that "mainstream Americans" support his position when they actually don't it is no longer just an innocent mistake.

Spin it however you want.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Ok, haha. Whatever. Just remember, ghosts aren't real.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The host of the segment talks about the poll. He poses the question and gives the (backwards) results. You think he just made that up on the fly? That was the first time anyone at Fox "News" had seen the poll and just threw it together and it was an honest mistake? Really? If you're that gullible, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn that would just be perfect for you.

So show me the evidence of the fact that they deliberately lied.

I fear you may be confusing opinion with facts.

Let's take a hypothetical example. If a poster said "The world is round", he's stating this as a fact. If this were to called into question, said poster should be able to provide proof of this fact. If a poster said "The world is a boring place" that would be an opinion since even though he may be able to provide substantiating evidence, he could not prove it as a fact. Or say for example a poster says "USCHO liberals always say Clinton was a social conservative." Said poster is stating something is a fact. Other posters who disagree could ask for evidence of this so-called fact and if said poster was unable to do so he/she would (and should) be called out for this. If said poster were to have said "It seems like USCHO liberals think Clinton was a social conservative" he/she would be stating their opinion on the matter and while he/she could give supporting evidence, he/she could not necessarily prove it. It's an opinion. Sometimes it's difficult around here to discern if a poster is trying to state an opinion or a fact so things do get a little confusing. However, your statement was

So you're hoping that a debate about Wisconsin SAT scores will distract from the fact that Fox "News" deliberately lied by switching the results of the poll for their own political ends. Good idea.

As such, I'm simply asking you to show me those facts. You know, firm evidence rather than conjecture.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Honestly. Fox News might not be impartial, but that doesn't mean they're above mistakes or that there is some vast right wing conspiracy.

The big question is whether once the mistake was spotted Fox's pundits admitted that their conclusion was wrong.

"I guess we were wrong and therefore the country does support unions. Indeed, it seems maybe the GOP is out of touch with the people on this one." Rather than, "Oh there was a mistake on this chart we showed last hour. So moving right along..."

The former approach shows an honest mistake...the latter highlights a deep seated agenda that drives information shown, rather than information driving their conclusions. I think we know where Fox falls.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So show me the evidence of the fact that they deliberately lied.

If I had access to their internal memos I'm sure you would just dismiss them anyway.

But if you want proof that Roger Ailes encourages his employees to lie...

Affidavits Say Fox News Chief Told Employee to Lie

But I'm sure you can spin this away.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

The big question is whether once the mistake was spotted Fox's pundits admitted that their conclusion was wrong.

"I guess we were wrong and therefore the country does support unions. Indeed, it seems maybe the GOP is out of touch with the people on this one." Rather than, "Oh there was a mistake on this chart we showed last hour. So moving right along..."

The former approach shows an honest mistake...the latter highlights a deep seated agenda that drives information shown, rather than information driving their conclusions. I think we know where Fox falls.

And if this had been the first time they had made such a mistake, and if they were a legitimate news organization who had not admittedly chosen sides in the political fight, then maybe they would be due the benefit of the doubt. This is hardly the first time this has happened and they have admitted that they have chosen sides and are not a legitimate, non-partisan news organization.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

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[busterman62]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

If I had access to their internal memos I'm sure you would just dismiss them anyway.

But if you want proof that Roger Ailes encourages his employees to lie...

Affidavits Say Fox News Chief Told Employee to Lie

But I'm sure you can spin this away.

And these have what to do with the question at hand? You stated that it was a fact that Fox deliberately lied in this case. I simply asked to see those facts and you provide a link about talking points (without mention of direction to lie) and one about Judith Regan (which Fox program was she on?). Neither of which seem to pertain to this instance. Where are the "facts" that the Fox deliberately lied? Again, facts not conjecture.

Your flaw is that you naturally assume that <STRIKE>only a fiscal conservative can balance the budget</STRIKE> every mistake Fox makes is an ideologically driven lie. That's your faulty logic, not the fault of <STRIKE>all the liberals</STRIKE> non-partisans.

Try to change the subject if you like, but the fact remains that what you wrote was wrong.