Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

[jerphisch]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

You also have to place some blame on the government, whose entitlement programs enable this kind of behavior.

I have a friend who is on unemployment (has been for the past 2 years) and he refuses to look for a job until the government stops paying him to not work. And just last week he received a letter from the local unemployment office stating that his benefits had been extended another 6 months. He did nothing to apply for the extension, he just received it automatically.

I was receiving unemployment for a while in 2008, and Colorado makes you look for a job. I believe the rule was that you had to apply for 4 jobs a week, and keep a log of them to be available for audit. Maybe some more states need to implement something similar.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Yes I did...I got an A in it...nice dodge though proving you did not. You keep watching Fox News for your financial reports and you too can be a greeter at Wal-Mart

If you can't grasp how the multiplier effect works (unofan showed it perfectly) then you have no grasp of how the economic system in this country actually works. You have already made that clear on the micro-side of the equation but now on the macro-side you confirmed it. You aren't even framing the question right.

Oh wait, economics is elitist I forgot...they don't study that stuff in the "Real America"

BTW have you ever been on unemployment...I have, in fact I am part of the time now as I have been out of regular employment for 2 years. I look, I apply, I get nothing. According to you I should be S.O.L. or get paid 7 bucks an hour to work part time at Rainbow Foods. Well guess what, when I was 18 I could do that and survive, now at almost 30 that won't fly. My guess is you have never had to worry about that in your life...when you have struggled as much as the people you condemn and ridicule then you can talk to me.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

plante, you're really having trouble with the term "quantify" aren't you? Read this part slowly, and repeatedly if needed. Ready? Here goes: "How much money, as in actual dollars, are these unionized employees costing the system over and above what you or some study thinks is a reasonable wage?" Because while you have some strange obsession with nurses salaries, even though if its ER nurses we're talking about 100K for that profession given the life and death decisions involved doesn't seem that outrageous, you aren't identifying a problem nor giving a dollar value for a solution. This is unlike the Dems have have given dollar values for their proposals by independent analysis. (PS - what is it with you and nurses? Did you watch a movie named Naughty Nurses or something and then went down to the hospital to act it out in real life and ended up getting arrested?)

Next, while this is apparently too complex for your brain, the Dem bill is trying to address cost AND coverage. Why you ask? The more people are covered, the less costly ER visits and the more on top of potential health problems they are before they blow up into a full blown crisis. Next, as part of having people with pre existing conditions covered (a worthwhile goal which you've completely avoided) the deal is to get more healthy people paying in also - hence mandatory insurance. A worthwhile tradeoff IMHO.

Regarding waste and fraud, the bill does seek to address this. The problem is, if you only go after this first, it could be years to decades before the savings are realized. In the meantime, 10's of millions and growing are still without coverage. That's not a problem if you currently have insurance. It sure is if you don't. Of course, that would require you to think beyond your own interests. As I often say to self centered people like yourself, its a good thing you weren't running the country during WWII, or we'd all be speaking German right now.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

The husband of one of my paralegals is a union electrician who was laid off about 9 months ago. He refuses to even apply for temp work or work at WalMart or Home Depot because he collects more on unemployment. And because he thinks it's "not proper work for a licensed electrician". Meanwhile, his unemployment is due to expire in a few weeks, and his wife is looking for a second job.

You're in banking, if you lost your job, would you go work at Wal-mart? Especially if it paid less than what you are getting on unemployment?

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

People collecting UI should be required to prove they are looking for jobs.

Ummm, they are.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

You're in banking, if you lost your job, would you go work at Wal-mart? Especially if it paid less than what you are getting on unemployment?

Might have to. There is no question that the middle class is being squeezed out. It's not out of the question to think that many may have to choose to live with a lot less in the future.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I was receiving unemployment for a while in 2008, and Colorado makes you look for a job. I believe the rule was that you had to apply for 4 jobs a week, and keep a log of them to be available for audit. Maybe some more states need to implement something similar.

I'm not sure if Wisconsin requires 4 a week, but they have something pretty similar.

 

[Carter]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Sorry to butt in with a question, but did unemployment suddenly start paying a living wage? My wife was making about 55k when she lost her job about 8 years ago. Her unemployment check was about $300 per week. That's what, 15k per year? I mean, several posters have noted they have friends who won't go back to work until unemployment stops paying them, but I can tell you in my experience unemployment didn't come close to covering our basic cost of living. Has it changed that much?

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

If spending drove an economy Eastern Europe would rule the world. If there is such a great multiplier then why don't we double unemployment benefits?

Productivity drives an economy. When you take money out of the economy you are taking it away from more productive means. What you don't see when gov't spends money is what would have been built in the private sector. You don't see how much more effective the private sector could have been with that same money.

How is the money taken out of the economy? Seems to me it's being injected back in to the economy, because without unemployment benefits, that money would not be there, period. And that money buys groceries, pays the gas bill, makes the mortgage payment, so the storeowner, the utility company, the bank, can pay their people.

Take that money out of the system, and you're cherished 'private sector' comes to a grinding halt. And where's your economy now?

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Same thing in Mass I believe - you have to be actively seeking a job. Now I don't know what's involved in that, but IIRC all of these rules been tightened up from what was the norm a generation ago.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Might have to. There is no question that the middle class is being squeezed out. It's not out of the question to think that many may have to choose to live with a lot less in the future.

Certainly not the banksters. They're the chosen ones!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Certainly not the banksters. They're the chosen ones!

Well, everyone's goal should be to be a chosen one but in any system there are winners and losers and the percentage of winners has to be pretty small or else you'd have socialism.

Perot wasn't lying about everything.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

And the banksters are the winners, and everyone else can just go eff themselves. Should have gone to school to be banksters.

It's the American way.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

And the banksters are the winners, and everyone else can just go eff themselves. Should have gone to school to be banksters.

It's the American way.

Well, in some ways it is. Although we have Capitalism supposedly everyone (unless you're a moron) knows that unfettered Capitalism doesn't work. The government is supposed to provide a framework (level playing field) for everyone to compete. What has happened is the government has gotten into the habit of picking the winners and losers and causing uncertainty in the system. The banks are just the latest example.

So, it's the American way is pretty accurate.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Sorry to butt in with a question, but did unemployment suddenly start paying a living wage? My wife was making about 55k when she lost her job about 8 years ago. Her unemployment check was about $300 per week. That's what, 15k per year? I mean, several posters have noted they have friends who won't go back to work until unemployment stops paying them, but I can tell you in my experience unemployment didn't come close to covering our basic cost of living. Has it changed that much?

No, it hasn't.

When I was on unemployment, I was plenty motivated to find a job.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well, in some ways it is. Although we have Capitalism supposedly everyone (unless you're a moron) knows that unfettered Capitalism doesn't work. The government is supposed to provide a framework (level playing field) for everyone to compete. What has happened is the government has gotten into the habit of picking the winners and losers and causing uncertainty in the system. The banks are just the latest example.

So, it's the American way is pretty accurate.

When have we ever had unfettered capitalism though?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

When have we ever had unfettered capitalism though?

Why? You want to try it?

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

No, it hasn't.

When I was on unemployment, I was plenty motivated to find a job.

Correct. Maybe its comforting to think that everybody unemployed wants to be. Sorta like bad things only happen to people who have it coming to them.

Or, as this perception seems to come exclusively from the Right, it could also be a straw man set up to easily rail against (not that that would ever happen).

Either way, I can't see how too many people can do more than treat water on unemployment.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well, in some ways it is. Although we have Capitalism supposedly everyone (unless you're a moron) knows that unfettered Capitalism doesn't work. The government is supposed to provide a framework (level playing field) for everyone to compete. What has happened is the government has gotten into the habit of picking the winners and losers and causing uncertainty in the system. The banks are just the latest example.

So, it's the American way is pretty accurate.

Quite a bit off the mark. The problem is that the govt got out of the way and adopted the attitude of the last 30 years that businesses could self regulate and everybody would behave. It would be nice to live in a world where everybody did what was proper and legal all the time. The problem is we don't, and conservatism tends to have a big problem wrapping its mind around that. While the market does correct many problems, its never 100% fool proof, hence the need for regulation and penalties to catch wrongdoing.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Correct. Maybe its comforting to think that everybody unemployed wants to be. Sorta like bad things only happen to people who have it coming to them.

Or, as this perception seems to come exclusively from the Right, it could also be a straw man set up to easily rail against (not that that would ever happen).

Either way, I can't see how too many people can do more than treat water on unemployment.

Max unemployment benefit here in NJ is now $600 per week and it is state tax free. Although many states have a lower max amount, $600(state tax free) and I believe the first $2400 is immune from Federal Taxation (as per the stimulus act), is certainly nothing to sneeze at. Let's see-if both a husband and wife each collect the max amount that would be about $31,500 for a six month period.