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Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

unofan said:
Considering NATO invoked the mutual aid article for the first time ever in response to 9/11, that is a resounding yes.
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To rebuild the twin towers, or to help us find who did it and get some retribution.

If they put money into the Freedom Tower, that would be like us an Notre Dame.

For future fire prevention, sure, we can offer aid, which is akin to the NATO declaration.

Did anyone donate money to rebuild the Pentagon? Or just offer planes to bomb people?

You do see they are not the same, right?
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

dxmnkd316 said:
Countries did far more than offer monetary support. They offered military and intelligence. That's offering support in the form of lives. Far more valuable than monetary gifts.
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Not the same situation.

If someone actually set fire to the building, I'm sure we would be all in on helping finding them and getting some retribution- just like what happened in 9/11.

But I don't recall anyone donating money to clean up or rebuild the actual structures.

Again, for this particular situation, we are also bound by the Constitution, which should prevent us from donating money to a church. Again, while I'm totally for people donating money, and who knows, I may, too. But I'm not for our government doing it.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

alfablue said:
To rebuild the twin towers, or to help us find who did it and get some retribution.

If they put money into the Freedom Tower, that would be like us an Notre Dame.

For future fire prevention, sure, we can offer aid, which is akin to the NATO declaration.

Did anyone donate money to rebuild the Pentagon? Or just offer planes to bomb people?

You do see they are not the same, right?
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The Pentagon is a bit different. That's a military complex and offering aid to rebuild a foreign country's military center is an incredibly tricky minefield to navigate. It was also not a total loss like the WTC.

And if it was terrorists who took down Notre Dame, I'm sure we would be right there with France angling for a fight. Trumpy desperately needs and wants a war so he can play dressup and be a big boy wartime president
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

SJHovey said:
I'm not opposed to replicas or reconstructions. I've been on the USS Constitution myself. They can be great at conveying a sense of space, etc..., to a visitor wondering what it was like "back then."

But it's not the same. Notre Dame is never going to be Notre Dame again.

If the French want to rebuild it to have the partial replica, or because it's a working church, then by all means do so. But I don't think reconstruction of it rises to the level of world crisis which requires action or investment by governments across the planet.
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It already wasn't the same...
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

Kepler said:
This is a logical fallacy, though. It's the argument that when we rank order priorities we cannot justify spending anything on priority 2 unless we completely solve priority 1. But that's now how things really work. Problems are diminished but rarely completely solved. Also: enhancement of life is not made completely irrelevant by the persistence of suffering.

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying: no city should pass a bond for a ballpark when it can't afford books. But I think that is not analogous to this. Not to mention that to a global donation base one billion euros is noise.
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I'm not trying to rank priorities. I just think that at a point beyond the local Parisian government or the country of France it isn't a priority at all (except for maybe Vatican City).
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

alfablue said:
Not the same situation.

If someone actually set fire to the building, I'm sure we would be all in on helping finding them and getting some retribution- just like what happened in 9/11.

But I don't recall anyone donating money to clean up or rebuild the actual structures.

Again, for this particular situation, we are also bound by the Constitution, which should prevent us from donating money to a church. Again, while I'm totally for people donating money, and who knows, I may, too. But I'm not for our government doing it.
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Maybe it's also because the WTC were an insured private commercial venture.

Notre Dame would be like if the US Capitol building were burned to the ground. Or if the Hoover Dam were destroyed. Countries pledge aid to each other all the time. Hurricanes are one example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#International_response

Over seventy countries pledged monetary donations or other assistance. Cuba and Venezuela (both considered as hostile to US government interest) were the first countries to offer assistance, pledging over $1 million, several mobile hospitals, water treatment plants, canned food, bottled water, heating oil, 1,100 doctors and 26.4 metric tons of medicine, though this aid was rejected by the U.S. government.[142][143][144][145] Kuwait made the largest single pledge, $500 million; other large donations were made by Qatar and United Arab Emirates (each $100 million), South Korea ($30 million), Australia ($10 million), India, China (both $5 million), New Zealand ($2 million),[146] Pakistan ($1.5 million),[147] Norway ($1.8 million),[148] and Bangladesh ($1 million).[149]
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We're in this together and everyone can take their selfish responses and shove them.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

dxmnkd316 said:
Maybe it's also because the WTC were an insured private commercial venture.

Notre Dame would be like if the US Capitol building were burned to the ground. Or if the Hoover Dam were destroyed. Countries pledge aid to each other all the time. Hurricanes are one example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#International_response



We're in this together and everyone can take their selfish responses and shove them.
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It is very selfish to have the audacity to consider actual human lives more important than property. I apologize.
 
ticapnews said:
It is very selfish to have the audacity to consider actual human lives more important than property. I apologize.
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No, the problem is the answer is: "why not both?"

You're falling into the GOP trap of we can't even pay for X, so why are we funding PBS or giving health care to anchor babies. We're the richest country on the farking planet. We can afford all of the above.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

ticapnews said:
It is very selfish to have the audacity to consider actual human lives more important than property. I apologize.
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Yeah, other countries never offer us aid to cleanup property:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#Reactions

The U.S. government rejected offers of cleanup help from Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations. The U.S. State Department listed 70 assistance offers from 23 countries, all being initially declined, but later, 8 had been accepted.[309][310] The USCG actively requested skimming boats and equipment from several countries.[311]
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

unofan said:
No, the problem is the answer is: "why not both?"

You're falling into the GOP trap of we can't even pay for X, so why are we funding PBS or giving health care to anchor babies. We're the richest country on the farking planet. We can afford all of the above.
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We COULD afford both. We COULD afford to do anything. We don't.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

SJHovey said:
I'm not trying to rank priorities. I just think that at a point beyond the local Parisian government or the country of France it isn't a priority at all (except for maybe Vatican City).
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Oh, we totally disagree, then. Notre Dame is a gift to all of humanity. We all should have a stake in preserving it. Notre Dame is way, way, way, way, way more important than France. It predates France.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

dxmnkd316 said:
Yeah, other countries never offer us aid to cleanup property:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#Reactions

The U.S. government rejected offers of cleanup help from Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations. The U.S. State Department listed 70 assistance offers from 23 countries, all being initially declined, but later, 8 had been accepted.[309][310] The USCG actively requested skimming boats and equipment from several countries.[311]
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I place more importance on restoring nature and providing food to millions of people more than providing spirituality. But I guess I'm just weird that way.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

mookie1995 said:
yup :)
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E. K. Hornbeck : Evolution is a tricky question, which is hungrier, my stomach or my soul? Hot dog.
Bible salesman : Are you an evolutionist? An infidel? A sinner?
E. K. Hornbeck : The worst kind, I write for a newspaper.
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

ticapnews said:
E. K. Hornbeck : Evolution is a tricky question, which is hungrier, my stomach or my soul? Hot dog.
Bible salesman : Are you an evolutionist? An infidel? A sinner?
E. K. Hornbeck : The worst kind, I write for a newspaper.
Click to expand...

:)

ok, everyone who has seen this, raise you hand :D
 
Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning down...

mookie1995 said:
:)

ok, everyone who has seen this, raise you hand :D
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"Progress has never been a bargain. You have to pay for it. Sometimes I think there's a man who sits behind a counter and says, "All right, you can have a telephone but you lose privacy and the charm of distance. Madam, you may vote but at a price. You lose the right to retreat behind the powder puff or your petticoat. Mister, you may conquer the air but the birds will lose their wonder and the clouds will smell of gasoline."
 
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