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Norwich Hockey - Time to Regroup

KrbFlint said:
The lens I'm looking through is, simply by virtue of a much weaker league, the record will be better and - hopefully - the conference tourney results will be better. I think we'll really see what the trajectory looks like once Dawes/Mattson have time to recruit a full class of "Dawes guys". There were some late adds after Dawes was hired (see: Fancy, Ocean) but it's certainly not a full class of Dominick's recruits.

Bog, no one really engaged with my thoughts on final standings. I'd be interested to hear what you think (objectively). In my view, a third place finish in a weaker league coming off three straight 2nds in one of the best leagues in the country is in no way a sign of any kind of progress.
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I can reiterate.
New league, new coach, new system. I see improvements, and areas that will require more experience.
Babson was a loss, USM was one more mistake from a tie at the end, UMD was not an easy game, and they are not a top notch team. Castleton can be a tough opponent, and Keene (with more games played) is decent. Plymouth has apparently resolved their problems somewhat, and they were better than the score indicated when NU played them. So, NU was 2nd last year, but tied in points with Babson. So it isn’t unreasonable to see Babson ahead at end of regular season. Also not unreasonable that Plymouth is very near the top of the LEC at end of year.
If this was Dawes Year 2, much more likely that NU is at the top, but a couple more stumbles against the better teams would have a big impact.
Today will be a good measure, and next weekend even better.
 
jerrynu26 said:
I can reiterate.
New league, new coach, new system. I see improvements, and areas that will require more experience.
Babson was a loss, USM was one more mistake from a tie at the end, UMD was not an easy game, and they are not a top notch team. Castleton can be a tough opponent, and Keene (with more games played) is decent. Plymouth has apparently resolved their problems somewhat, and they were better than the score indicated when NU played them. So, NU was 2nd last year, but tied in points with Babson. So it isn’t unreasonable to see Babson ahead at end of regular season. Also not unreasonable that Plymouth is very near the top of the LEC at end of year.
If this was Dawes Year 2, much more likely that NU is at the top, but a couple more stumbles against the better teams would have a big impact.
Today will be a good measure, and next weekend even better.
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I could be off here, but I don’t think Flint would necessarily disagree with your analysis. That said, I’m absolutely with Flint regarding his disappointment assessment and need to restore discipline. Penalties like boarding are scary and potentially inches away from injuries, majors, ejections, suspensions, etc.. If this behavior is the result of still fighting for spots then that’s one thing. If it persists, then there’s a leadership issue. Either way, that sort of reckless play has the potential to hinder our chances of finishing atop of the league. My experience is that Flint typically nails it. Flint?
 
Of course, the white elephant on campus is whether or not the president throws ample resources at his commitment to restore competitiveness to any and all athletic programs. Without generous financial aid to dole out, Norwich sports teams will sink deeper and deeper into the bowels of standings. The football team is the laughingstock of D3, but the program fills too many beds to eliminate. But it doesn’t stop at financial aid, does it? No more journeyman coaches, no more promotions from within, no more part-timers, etc. There also needs to be a commitment to recruiting the best and brightest coaches, as well. My blood pressure is rising so I need to stop here. Flint?
 
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jerrynu26 said:
I can reiterate.
New league, new coach, new system. I see improvements, and areas that will require more experience.
Babson was a loss, USM was one more mistake from a tie at the end, UMD was not an easy game, and they are not a top notch team. Castleton can be a tough opponent, and Keene (with more games played) is decent. Plymouth has apparently resolved their problems somewhat, and they were better than the score indicated when NU played them. So, NU was 2nd last year, but tied in points with Babson. So it isn’t unreasonable to see Babson ahead at end of regular season. Also not unreasonable that Plymouth is very near the top of the LEC at end of year.
If this was Dawes Year 2, much more likely that NU is at the top, but a couple more stumbles against the better teams would have a big impact.
Today will be a good measure, and next weekend even better.
Click to expand...
More or less agree, I guess. I’ll still be alarmed with a 3rd in the LEC
 
Bog Hockey said:
I could be off here, but I don’t think Flint would necessarily disagree with your analysis. That said, I’m absolutely with Flint regarding his disappointment assessment and need to restore discipline. Penalties like boarding are scary and potentially inches away from injuries, majors, ejections, suspensions, etc.. If this behavior is the result of still fighting for spots then that’s one thing. If it persists, then there’s a leadership issue. Either way, that sort of reckless play has the potential to hinder our chances of finishing atop of the league. My experience is that Flint typically nails it. Flint?
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Agree on all counts. It’s clear this team wants to play more aggressively but it’s gotta be worth the risk. Consistently putting yourself a man down is a dangerous game.
 
Bog Hockey said:
Of course, the white elephant on campus is whether or not the president throws ample resources at his commitment to restore competitiveness to any and all athletic programs. Without generous financial aid to dole out, Norwich sports teams will sink deeper and deeper into the bowels of standings. The football team is the laughingstock of D3, but the program fills too many beds to eliminate. But it doesn’t stop at financial aid, does it? No more journeyman coaches, no more promotions from within, no more part-timers, etc. There also needs to be a commitment to recruiting the best and brightest coaches, as well. My blood pressure is rising so I need to stop here. Flint?
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It’s not the President. The trustees have made it clear that saving money/increasing revenue is the priority. He reports to them. Until that tone changes, I think there’s a pretty low ceiling.

As far as football goes, I think they face significant challenges in the NEWMAC. They never should have gone into that league in the first place. NU does not have the resources, the facilities, or the attractive location to win recruiting battles against those schools. In a different league I think the narrative shifts. I watched them pummel Plymouth State in the preseason only to see Plymouth State go 8-2 this season in the MASCAC. Quick math this fall showed 80% of the roster being freshman or sophomores so hopefully building.
 
Are they not responding to Dawes or is it a lack of talent, skill, conditioning, and hockey acumen or a combination thereof? I see they’re still able to shoot the puck at the opposing goalie’s pads and chest.
 
Bog Hockey said:
Are they not responding to Dawes or is it a lack of talent, skill, conditioning, and hockey acumen or a combination thereof? I see they’re still able to shoot the puck at the opposing goalie’s pads and chest.
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I think they are responding to the new coach and style. There are some learning collegiate hockey, and a whole bunch unlearning 3 years of coaching. I don’t think it is conditioning, they were able to be more uptempo late in the game still.
Shooting (effectively) has been a problem at NU for a few years now, for both men and women. Too many pucks high and/or wide, and a lot of shots are squarely into the goalie.

And last nite, doing nothing on the last play except holding it on the boards was a safer bet.

I think (IMO) it was known this would take a while, but overall it is better than the past and is trending in the right direction.
 
Great first and third last night. I thought they took their foot off the gas a bit to start the second and ended up on their heels for much of the period. All in all a good performance.

My heart wants a classic Norwich/Middlebury packed house clash tonight but my head knows better. Went down a rabbit hole yesterday looking at some old box scores/attendance figures at Kreitzberg for NU/Midd matchups. I think it was 2011 the reported attendance was 2200+ (probably high), a few years back the listed attendance was 727. Obviously the relative decline of both programs plays a role, but I think times have changed and I doubt we’ll ever see the rink overflowing like that again.

Sidenote: I’m no doctor but I wouldn’t plan on seeing Heinrich any time soon
 
KrbFlint said:
Great first and third last night. I thought they took their foot off the gas a bit to start the second and ended up on their heels for much of the period. All in all a good performance.

My heart wants a classic Norwich/Middlebury packed house clash tonight but my head knows better. Went down a rabbit hole yesterday looking at some old box scores/attendance figures at Kreitzberg for NU/Midd matchups. I think it was 2011 the reported attendance was 2200+ (probably high), a few years back the listed attendance was 727. Obviously the relative decline of both programs plays a role, but I think times have changed and I doubt we’ll ever see the rink overflowing like that again.

Sidenote: I’m no doctor but I wouldn’t plan on seeing Heinrich any time soon
Click to expand...
The state of the programs doesn’t help, but I think it’s more of an era thing than it is a Norwich or Middlebury thing.

Like, I love college football and I love watching Group of 5 or FCS games just as much as the Power 4 teams. If I watch a MAC game then the stadium is usually less than half full, even if it’s a good team in a big game. There are a few exceptions. But I ask myself, was there ever a time where the MAC teams filled those stadiums? Did they ever regularly draw 25,000-30,000?

Probably. But we’re in an era now where there are far more entertainment options and the world is far less localized.

I took my sons last week to the Central Connecticut game. Last game of the season, conference championship and playoff birth on the line, playing another good team in Mercyhurst that had a shot at a share of the conference title with a win…stadium was half full.
 
NU Pastime said:
The state of the programs doesn’t help, but I think it’s more of an era thing than it is a Norwich or Middlebury thing.

Like, I love college football and I love watching Group of 5 or FCS games just as much as the Power 4 teams. If I watch a MAC game then the stadium is usually less than half full, even if it’s a good team in a big game. There are a few exceptions. But I ask myself, was there ever a time where the MAC teams filled those stadiums? Did they ever regularly draw 25,000-30,000?

Probably. But we’re in an era now where there are far more entertainment options and the world is far less localized.

I took my sons last week to the Central Connecticut game. Last game of the season, conference championship and playoff birth on the line, playing another good team in Mercyhurst that had a shot at a share of the conference title with a win…stadium was half full.
Click to expand...
Yup there are to many kids who rather stay at home and play on the computer/X Box and not venture out to the rink/stadium,sucks for them, they dont know what they are missing...
 
Another step forward this past weekend. Physicality is improving, and nice to see. Saturdays game against Midd, always a tough one, showed they had grit, and a lot of perseverance. Some things to cleanup for sure, but more experience in the system will take care of that.
D’Ancona stood out to me, as did Niko Benjamin. Stahlbaum also, especially that goal on Friday.
Also nice to see some of the older traditions returning, Thanksgiving dining, and some post game gatherings with the team.
Lots to look forward to!
 
Here are some comments regarding going to FLO sports from a soccer forum.

1. The ROI on Flo is much less than any of those other platforms.
2. The minimal funds that are supposed to go to the schools who signed up to improve broadcast quality are seemingly sucked up elsewhere.
3. The average quality of the product is poor and does not represent an improvement over what used to be free. And it doesn't seem to improve over time.
4. I, like many others, already donate more to my school's athletic program than Flo costs. Being forced to pay to watch something I already substantially support is an insult. Or if you're a parent already spending thousands (to tens of thousands) annually to send your child to college, it's another tacked on fee for no good reason.
5. If I want to tell someone to watch an event, they too are forced to pay.
6. This is simply another money grab and the people behind it don't give a damn about D3 sports, they just want to get enough suckers customers to pay for it (because they have no choice once Flo takes over) so they can get bought out and show a profit.
7. I've received notes from 11 D3 head basketball coaches, so far, who say their stream viewership is down anywhere from the 40% to 80% after moving to Flo.
 
neumyer said:
Here are some comments regarding going to FLO sports from a soccer forum.

1. The ROI on Flo is much less than any of those other platforms.
2. The minimal funds that are supposed to go to the schools who signed up to improve broadcast quality are seemingly sucked up elsewhere.
3. The average quality of the product is poor and does not represent an improvement over what used to be free. And it doesn't seem to improve over time.
4. I, like many others, already donate more to my school's athletic program than Flo costs. Being forced to pay to watch something I already substantially support is an insult. Or if you're a parent already spending thousands (to tens of thousands) annually to send your child to college, it's another tacked on fee for no good reason.
5. If I want to tell someone to watch an event, they too are forced to pay.
6. This is simply another money grab and the people behind it don't give a damn about D3 sports, they just want to get enough suckers customers to pay for it (because they have no choice once Flo takes over) so they can get bought out and show a profit.
7. I've received notes from 11 D3 head basketball coaches, so far, who say their stream viewership is down anywhere from the 40% to 80% after moving to Flo.
Click to expand...
HUDL is a much better platform. Most SYNYAC schools now use it. The best part is no charge. LEC should have shopped a little !!
 
neumyer said:
7. I've received notes from 11 D3 head basketball coaches, so far, who say their stream viewership is down anywhere from the 40% to 80% after moving to Flo.
Click to expand...
These are essentially the same numbers being reported in the D3 football world, mostly on the high side. No school is getting any money worth writing home about and are losing a ton of publicity and marketing.
 
Russell Jaslow said:
These are essentially the same numbers being reported in the D3 football world, mostly on the high side. No school is getting any money worth writing home about and are losing a ton of publicity and marketing.
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In my opinion ,the little money they make is not worth it and is not in the spirit of D3 sports. Let D3 be free (y):)
 
WCHornet said:
HUDL is a much better platform. Most SYNYAC schools now use it. The best part is no charge. LEC should have shopped a little !!
Click to expand...
(Potentionally no charge to viewers, but the schools could change that if they wish.) The cost for the package is paid by the school, so it isn't really free.

Norwich always had above average video production when they did it themselves, and generally with NSN. Because of the NEHC breakup, and the move to LEC, the league required moving to Flo. I can't say I know much about what the other LEC teams that were not in the NEHC did before this.
 
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