Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

No S, Sherlock... Nobody is arguing that darker skin makes people more prone to violence. But culture is a real thing, as you've been pointing out yourself, and culture does matter. Someone who grows up in inner-city Detroit or Chicago has grown up in a completely different culture than I did, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect differences in attitude, beliefs, and behaviors. I'm sure you believe such cultural differences exist when it comes to evaluating candidates for jobs or college applications. This is just the other side of the coin.

This. Even within races there are numerous and vastly different cultures.

I actually had a (black) salesman come to my door once and proclaim at one point that he wasn't "One of those ghetto blacks that live around the corner." It was an attempt to put me at ease and make me trust him more and an attempt to separate himself from a perceived negative.

Each race is aware that there are differences within their race (culturally) and will seek to distance themselves from those that they see different in a negative way culturally from themselves.

I certainly do. I don't identify with "white trash." And whatever my biases in that regard may say about me, I am in fact very different culturally from them.

Reality.


Btw, was that salesman racist?

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Uhhhh law enforcement confirmed that Wilson shot while he was fleeing. So unless that nytimes piece isn't true, that part of the story is no longer simply a "narrative" or even a matter of debate.

Every post. I'm not cherry picking.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

So I'm dumb for believing a narrative that law enforcement themselves admits is true? That's your argument?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

So I'm dumb for believing a narrative that law enforcement themselves admits is true? That's your argument?

No, you're dumb because it's all you've been harping on for all of the 91 posts you've made since Michael Brown was killed. You're a one trick pony on this thread. It's all you say. Ever. Period.

ETA: Checked the number of posts, it's actually 91. I underestimated just how long you've been letting that scratched record skip.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

All.

Of.

Your.

Posts.


...on this matter have been biased in the same way.

Try to comprehend what I'm writing here. Not talking about your recent fixation on whether the suspect was shot at while fleeing.

You want badly for this cop to be guilty of something and continue to highlight information that has come out that supports your want and ignore information that doesn't.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

My biases are due to what law enforcement and eyewitnesses said. Since that's pretty much all we have to go by. Why is that so hard to comprehend? What credible information contradicts what I've said?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

You want badly for this cop to be guilty of something and continue to highlight information that has come out that supports your want and ignore information that doesn't.

To be fair, there are people here who in every post are showing they have likewise made up their minds that Wilson is a victim and the community are rabid dogs looking to Kill Whitey or bank some cash off the incident.

Nobody's conducting themselves real well, here.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

To be fair, there are people here who in every post are showing they have likewise made up their minds that Wilson is a victim and the community are rabid dogs looking to Kill Whitey or bank some cash off the incident.

Nobody's conducting themselves real well, here.

At least I try to respond to people's actual points instead of HURRRR YOU'RE BIASED and personal insults.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

violent blacks are portrayed as "black culture"

this portrayal certainly includes portrayals of blacks as violent that is disseminated by non-violent blacks who make a lot of money as recording artists and producers by promoting this image to sell music, no?

are you saying that one group of rich blacks are racists? or is it "merely" that this group of rich blacks is "exploiting" poor blacks to make money off of them by promoting a lifestyle that they themselves reject (many of them live in gated communities with bodyguards according to the press)? To some extent, blacks themselves are portraying their own culture as violent, are they not?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

This. Even within races there are numerous and vastly different cultures.

Each race is aware that there are differences within their race (culturally) and will seek to distance themselves from those that they see different in a negative way culturally from themselves.

yeah, the hispanics especially seem to be really attuned to who is Cuban / Puerto Rican / Dominican etc., and Jamaicans generally don't even consider themselves as "black" at all.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Btw, was that salesman racist?

That salesman knew how to work his thing with you. The next house he went to he talked about the cracker he just left.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

That salesman knew how to work his thing with you. The next house he went to he talked about the cracker he just left.

You're not making the assumption that that black man would use that term about me based on his race are you?


Was well played though.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

are you saying that one group of rich blacks are racists? or is it "merely" that this group of rich blacks is "exploiting" poor blacks to make money off of them by promoting a lifestyle that they themselves reject (many of them live in gated communities with bodyguards according to the press)? To some extent, blacks themselves are portraying their own culture as violent, are they not?

Some are portraying a culture, not "black culture," because there's no such thing as "black culture," that's just a marketing label used to elicit either approval or fear. Plenty of gangsta rap glorifies a dumbfukc lifestyle the way plenty of country glorifies a dumbfukc lifestyle, and for the same reason -- all dollars are green. Though I'd mention that gangsta rap made much of their money off dumb suburban white kids shopping for an edgy culture to help get them laid. Those artists and producers were really making their cash by feeding back the idiotic expectations of white people about the "black culture" they were terrified of / lured by. The kids who bought that music were just the flip side of the people who cower behind their tower of back issues of American Spectator peeing their pants with excitement at the thought of reenacting Thermopylae and saving Western Civilization from the hordes.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

You're not making the assumption that that black man would use that term about me based on his race are you?

Depends on who lived in the next house.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

This time, at least, a serious question from genuine curiosity.

How is it not racist for a college to say to a black high school senior, "even though you don't meet our standard admissions requirements, we're going to admit you anyway, because, given your skin color, we can hardly expect you to be as academically proficient as people of a different race."

Now, I don't at all want to open a debate about affirmative action, and I certainly do understand the benevolent impulses behind the concept. I'm limiting my question to a narrow focus only: how is such an attitude not racist?

Here is a variant that is very close that would not be racist, IMHO: "currently, you do not meet our admissions standards. At the same time, we would very much like you to attend our college as a full-time student. Therefore, we will grant you provisional admission to our introductory 'college preparatory' curriculum. If you do well in that program, we will then proceed to finalize your admission as a full-time four-year student."

The first example is based on race. the second example is based on proficiency. To me, it sounds like the first example includes implicit condescension: "we can hardly expect you to meet our normal standards because you are black, yet we will make an exception for you anyway because you are black."

Perhaps the honest answer is that, yes, it is indeed implicit "racism" but it is not invidious racism but an "uplifting" form of racism??

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Well you have to ask yourself why they're not as academically proficient and a lot of it has to do with education not being equal for white suburbanites vs those in poorer communities.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

This time, at least, a serious question from genuine curiosity.

How is it not racist for a college to say to a black high school senior, "even though you don't meet our standard admissions requirements, we're going to admit you anyway, because, given your skin color, we can hardly expect you to be as academically proficient as people of a different race."

That question framing is loaded (as virtually all of yours are -- please stop trying to dazzle us with your Cato Jedi mind tricks, they just make you look superficial), so lemme help you with it.

How is it racist to say, "given the difference in resources, a 700 verbal in Detroit equals a 740 verbal in Grosse Point"?

I'm with you when you suggest racial set asides were a mistake. It should all have been class-based, right from the start. The affirmative action system we have now just gives upper middle class whites' slots to upper middle class blacks. But it is still way preferable to just feeding people off the Andover-private tutor conveyor to replicate the same power structure generation after generation.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Well you have to ask yourself why they're not as academically proficient and a lot of it has to do with education not being equal for white suburbanites vs those in poorer communities.

That makes the assumption that either affirmative action only applies to poor black people or that all black people are poor, and neither of those scenarios are the truth.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Perhaps the honest answer is that, yes, it is indeed implicit "racism" but it is not invidious racism but an "uplifting" form of racism??

Good God, I can't believe you guys are still peddling this nonsense, forty years after it was hatched by the Birchers. I guess some misdirection plays are truly evergreen.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Well you have to ask yourself why they're not as academically proficient and a lot of it has to do with education not being equal for white suburbanites vs those in poorer communities.

Not surprising that you missed the point of his question.

He's asking if letting them in due to the fact that they are minorities implies that they can't be proficient enough due to the fact that they are minorities. He's not talking about the causes of their deficiency but rather the assumption that many will be deficient due to race.

Would seem to fit the broad definition of racism that so many ascribe.


I'm sure it will be pointed out though how it's somehow different.