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Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet


Before I opened the link, I was going to make a snarky comment about some idiot who finds out it is actually 1½" x 3½" and then feels ripped off......

egads. :rolleyes:



Our current house was built about 85 years ago and the original framing really is pretty close to an actual 2" x 4".

Kind of interesting though that a 1 x 6 is ¾" by 5½" but a 1 x 8 is ¾" by 7¼"

Per Wikipedia:

Lumber's nominal dimensions are larger than the actual standard dimensions of finished lumber. Historically, the nominal dimensions were the size of the green (not dried), rough (unfinished) boards that eventually became smaller finished lumber through drying and planing (to smooth the wood). Today, the standards specify the final finished dimensions and the mill cuts the logs to whatever size it needs to achieve those final dimensions. Typically, that rough cut is smaller than the nominal dimensions because modern technology makes it possible and it uses the logs more efficiently. For example, a "2x4" board historically started out as a green, rough board actually 2 inches by 4 inches. After drying and planing, it would be smaller, by a nonstandard amount. Today, a "2x4" board starts out as something smaller than 2 inches by 4 inches and not specified by standards, and after drying and planing is reliably 1 1⁄2 inches x 3 1⁄2 inches.

Early standards called for green rough lumber to be of full nominal dimension when dry. However, the dimensions have diminished over time. In 1910, a typical finished 1-inch- (25 mm) board was 13⁄16 in (21 mm). In 1928, that was reduced by 4%, and yet again by 4% in 1956. In 1961, at a meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona, the Committee on Grade Simplification and Standardization agreed to what is now the current U.S. standard: in part, the dressed size of a 1 inch (nominal) board was fixed at 3⁄4 inch; while the dressed size of 2 inch (nominal) lumber was reduced from 1 5⁄8 inch to the current 1 1⁄2 inch.[8]

Dimensional lumber is available in green, unfinished state, and for that kind of lumber, the nominal dimensions are the actual dimensions.

So there actually is an official organization that sets standards for lumber dimensions, yet the California court system can just invent their own anyway? :rolleyes:

and trial attorneys wonder why they have such a poor reputation....
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Good grief.

There are a bunch of people who need to read this: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3074/why-arent-two-by-fours-two-inches-by-four-inches


I learned nominal size vs true size from my grandfather years before it was mentioned in any of the construction classes I took. These "class action" morons are probably the yuppie suburbanites who feel their being screwed because the nominal 2x4 wasn't an actual 2x4. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Good grief.

There are a bunch of people who need to read this: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3074/why-arent-two-by-fours-two-inches-by-four-inches


I learned nominal size vs true size from my grandfather years before it was mentioned in any of the construction classes I took. These "class action" morons are probably the yuppie suburbanites who feel their being screwed because the nominal 2x4 wasn't an actual 2x4. :rolleyes:
I was looking through an ad from the Home Depot or Menard's where they listed their lumber prices, and below the lumber size it listed true size. I just chuckled at the time because it made sense to keep on the lookout for some chuckle head who didn't know any better.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I admit I do find it amusing, though, when occasionally I'll see at Home Depot plywood that is, according to them, 23/32" thick. Some day, I'll have to take a micrometer and see if I'm getting cheated by a few thousandths of an inch.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I admit I do find it amusing, though, when occasionally I'll see at Home Depot plywood that is, according to them, 23/32" thick. Some day, I'll have to take a micrometer and see if I'm getting cheated by a few thousandths of an inch.

I suspect the machine that cuts the wood is calibrated better than your micrometer. :) They probably have so many steps on the supply chain that rely on exact measurement that they're much more interested in hitting the target exactly than the customer.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I suspect the machine that cuts the wood is calibrated better than your micrometer. :) They probably have so many steps on the supply chain that rely on exact measurement that they're much more interested in hitting the target exactly than the customer.
They might be more accurate wit expensive woods and trim pieces, but for standard lumber carpenters have what some might consider a significant margin of error, so I wouldn't expect the lumber mill to be all that exacting. When my brothers were building a cabin for my parents, my one brother who works HVAC started calling lengths to my brother who framed houses at the time. The HVAC brother was calling down values within 1/32" and it was frustrating my carpenter brother because they work in 1/8" increments. My HVAC brother was just shaking his head at the MOE used in building houses, and may have been why he spent so much time doing much of the finishing work on his house himself some three or four years later.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

They might be more accurate wit expensive woods and trim pieces, but for standard lumber carpenters have what some might consider a significant margin of error, so I wouldn't expect the lumber mill to be all that exacting. When my brothers were building a cabin for my parents, my one brother who works HVAC started calling lengths to my brother who framed houses at the time. The HVAC brother was calling down values within 1/32" and it was frustrating my carpenter brother because they work in 1/8" increments. My HVAC brother was just shaking his head at the MOE used in building houses, and may have been why he spent so much time doing much of the finishing work on his house himself some three or four years later.

I'm sure you're right.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

They might be more accurate wit expensive woods and trim pieces, but for standard lumber carpenters have what some might consider a significant margin of error, so I wouldn't expect the lumber mill to be all that exacting. When my brothers were building a cabin for my parents, my one brother who works HVAC started calling lengths to my brother who framed houses at the time. The HVAC brother was calling down values within 1/32" and it was frustrating my carpenter brother because they work in 1/8" increments. My HVAC brother was just shaking his head at the MOE used in building houses, and may have been why he spent so much time doing much of the finishing work on his house himself some three or four years later.

As a mechanical engineer, a tolerance greater than +/-.005" is too much! ;)
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

That doesn't add up for me - if I'm building a house with a couple of hundred 2x4s, I really don't care if they're within 1/16th of an inch. But if I'm running a lumber mill that's going to make a million 2x4s per year (or more - don't have a clue what a big mill would do), then that 1/16th matters - a lot. If I'm making mine 1/16th wider than the next guy, that's 6% extra material that I would be giving away for free. The "margin" that is important in this discussion doesn't have to do with geometric tolerance stackup, but with the business's profitability.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

That doesn't add up for me - if I'm building a house with a couple of hundred 2x4s, I really don't care if they're within 1/16th of an inch. But if I'm running a lumber mill that's going to make a million 2x4s per year (or more - don't have a clue what a big mill would do), then that 1/16th matters - a lot. If I'm making mine 1/16th wider than the next guy, that's 6% extra material that I would be giving away for free. The "margin" that is important in this discussion doesn't have to do with geometric tolerance stackup, but with the business's profitability.

Not knowing the business model of saw mills, it might be more profitable to give the "extra" material away for free if it means you can produce XX amount more than your competitor. Maybe the cost of running the machines and labor are the determining factor and not the cost of the raw material?
 
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