Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

[bigmrg74]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

17-year old shot & killed at Chicago high school basketball game. Anything being proposed to deal with that problem?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ago-state-university-20130116,0,2059838.story

Ban basketball!

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Ban basketball!

Ban poor people! Ban large cities!

Seriously, though, despite OP's oddly focused hard-on for violence in Chicago's poor neighborhoods, he does have a point that there are factors beyond the availability of guns that cause the epidemic of gun violence in America. Gang problems in various large cities illustrate that this is hardly something that can be solved through gun legislation.

Although I will disagree with people who use that as an excuse to not have more gun legislation. I don't remember where I first heard this analogy, but it's a good one: Just because you need to have rat poison in your house to deal with rodents doesn't mean that you should be keeping it on the bottom shelf where the kids can get it, if you know what I mean.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Ban poor people! Ban large cities!

Seriously, though, despite OP's oddly focused hard-on for violence in Chicago's poor neighborhoods, he does have a point that there are factors beyond the availability of guns that cause the epidemic of gun violence in America. Gang problems in various large cities illustrate that this is hardly something that can be solved through gun legislation.

Although I will disagree with people who use that as an excuse to not have more gun legislation. I don't remember where I first heard this analogy, but it's a good one: Just because you need to have rat poison in your house to deal with rodents doesn't mean that you should be keeping it on the bottom shelf where the kids can get it, if you know what I mean.

Oddly focused? Why is one murder put into so much more focus over another?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Oddly focused? Why is one murder put into so much more focus over another?

He posts enough links relating to gang crime in Chicago to at least consider it something of a focus of his. I snarkily made it to be more than that, but otherwise I don't think it's out of line to say that it's a recurring theme, on par with his observations of union thuggery.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

He posts enough links relating to gang crime in Chicago to at least consider it something of a focus of his. I snarkily made it to be more than that, but otherwise I don't think it's out of line to say that it's a recurring theme, on par with his observations of union thuggery.

My point still stands, though. We read hundreds of posts regarding a killing that happened in Florida, yet the only time we read something about Chicago is when OP brings it up. Why is the Florida person's life worth more regard than the Illinois person's life?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

My point still stands, though. We read hundreds of posts regarding a killing that happened in Florida, yet the only time we read something about Chicago is when OP brings it up. Why is the Florida person's life worth more regard than the Illinois person's life?

Ah, I got you. Good question.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that we collectively have more to say about the Trayvon Martin case because it ultimately revolves around an issue that we can understand, wrap our minds around and easily envision a solution to (the merits of "Stand Your Ground" laws), whereas the numerous issues in poor neighborhoods around the country (particularly in Chicago's south side) relate to an issue that we really have no idea how to fairly combat (inner city gangs and poverty).

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Ah, I got you. Good question.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that we collectively have more to say about the Trayvon Martin case because it ultimately revolves around an issue that we can understand, wrap our minds around and easily envision a solution to (the merits of "Stand Your Ground" laws), whereas the numerous issues in poor neighborhoods around the country (particularly in Chicago's south side) relate to an issue that we really have no idea how to fairly combat (inner city gangs and poverty).

I can solve it. Build a wall around the ****ers and let them kill each other until they're all gone. These gangs should be eradicated, and I don't give 2 ****s how its done. They're a blight on society.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

I can solve it. Build a wall around the ****ers and let them kill each other until they're all gone. These gangs should be eradicated, and I don't give 2 ****s how its done. They're a blight on society.

Might as well make the sheeple happy and bring in a camera crew to put it on PPV.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Might as well make the sheeple happy and bring in a camera crew to put it on PPV.

And also somehow figure out the poverty angle before it leads to new gangs forming on their own once his "final solution" is complete.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Ah, I got you. Good question.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that we collectively have more to say about the Trayvon Martin case because it ultimately revolves around an issue that we can understand, wrap our minds around and easily envision a solution to (the merits of "Stand Your Ground" laws), whereas the numerous issues in poor neighborhoods around the country (particularly in Chicago's south side) relate to an issue that we really have no idea how to fairly combat (inner city gangs and poverty).

Let's try to be real, for once, shall we? The "issue" in the Trayvon Martin case is race. His and George Zimmerman's. White guy killing a black guy. Discussion of "stand your ground" is a distraction. POTUS didn't jump into this case (nor the Revs) because of "stand your ground." They got involved because a white guy shot and killed a black guy. If both had been white, or black, or their races reversed, not a single one of us not living in Florida would have heard of the case, much less engaged in strenuous debate about it.

I have mentioned the continuing violence in Chicago because it isn't just gang thugs who are victims. Innocent children and grandparents are also killed. Without being too much of a demagogue, is the life of an adorable black 6-year old sitting on her stoop, shot to death by a gang thug who missed, less valuable than an adorable white 6-year old gunned down by Adam Lanza? In terms of loss of life, Chicago has the equivalent of a Newtown every month! The circumstances are clearly different, the killings in Chicago occur seriatum, not all at once. Still, it seems like we are inured to the slaughter of these black children and grand parents. And race must be considered part of the reason.

I mention the shooting in Chicago because no executive order, no proposed legislation, is likely to have any measurable impact on these crimes. Most big cities already have very tough gun control ordinances. Chicago's was so restrictive, the Supreme Court overturned it. Yet the killings continue. Young people carry and use guns at the drop of a hat. Like yesterday, at a high school basketball game! You read about these crimes every day, and yet we tend to look the other way. After all, "they" are only killing each other. 93% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks. And blacks represent a hugely disproportionate share of our murder victims. I'm not convinced that any anti-gun proposals will have an impact on a culture where teenagers carry guns and are prepared to shoot and kill other teenagers at a basketball game. I also believe a big part of the problem is the absense of appropriate male role models. Fathers, preferably. I've mentioned riding with Omaha's Mad Dads, which puts black men on the street to simply meet and talk with teenagers, hoping to show them a better way.

As a result of Newtown we've begun our customary crisis mongering. The NRA attacking Obama because his girls are given legally required protection. Suggesting their nitwit proposal to put cops in every one of our 100K schools is a "solution." Obama, staging "gun control theatre" hiding behind little kids. Are we to believe the next Adam Lanza is going to be deterred by a limit on the number of rounds in a magazine? This is a person who shot all of his victims multiple times. One child was struck 11 times! From personal experience, I can tell you that replacing one magazine with another is no BFD. Especially if you're on a psychotic murder rampage.

The Obama approach is a classic bait and switch: talk about the obscenity in Newtown and offer "solutions" which have approximately zero likelihood of stopping the next massacre. If Congress wants to ban "assault" weapons go right ahead, I don't care. But this is a meaningless distinction, based on aesthetics, not capabilities.
We previously banned these weapons. And the ban was allowed to expire. One would have expected crime to decline while the ban was in effect and increase after it expired. Neither happened. More children die every year in this country from gun accidents than all the children who have ever been shot in one of these school massacres.

Yet we continue with this gun Kabuki. I am so sick and tired of both sides in this argument, I'm unable to express it. The NRA exploring new vistas of reactionary paranoid hysteria. The POTUS and Vice POTUS playing to their base, repeatedly trotting out one of the dumbest of all cliches: "If it only saves one life." What a crock. I'm pretty convinced that as a nation we are simply unable to have a serious discussion about the various gun problems, each of which requires a different, more nuanced approach. And when this spasm of crisis mongering has ended, we will or won't have some new gun control laws, and the NRA will or won't be able to punish some congressmen for voting the "wrong" way, but we will be no safer. Neither will our children.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Let's try to be real, for once, shall we? The "issue" in the Trayvon Martin case is race. His and George Zimmerman's. White guy killing a black guy. Discussion of "stand your ground" is a distraction. POTUS didn't jump into this case (nor the Revs) because of "stand your ground." They got involved because a white guy shot and killed a black guy. If both had been white, or black, or their races reversed, not a single one of us not living in Florida would have heard of the case, much less engaged in strenuous debate about it.

I have mentioned the continuing violence in Chicago because it isn't just gang thugs who are victims. Innocent children and grandparents are also killed. Without being too much of a demagogue, is the life of an adorable black 6-year old sitting on her stoop, shot to death by a gang thug who missed, less valuable than an adorable white 6-year old gunned down by Adam Lanza? In terms of loss of life, Chicago has the equivalent of a Newtown every month! The circumstances are clearly different, the killings in Chicago occur seriatum, not all at once. Still, it seems like we are inured to the slaughter of these black children and grand parents. And race must be considered part of the reason.

I mention the shooting in Chicago because no executive order, no proposed legislation, is likely to have any measurable impact on these crimes. Most big cities already have very tough gun control ordinances. Chicago's was so restrictive, the Supreme Court overturned it. Yet the killings continue. Young people carry and use guns at the drop of a hat. Like yesterday, at a high school basketball game! You read about these crimes every day, and yet we tend to look the other way. After all, "they" are only killing each other. 93% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks. And blacks represent a hugely disproportionate share of our murder victims. I'm not convinced that any anti-gun proposals will have an impact on a culture where teenagers carry guns and are prepared to shoot and kill other teenagers at a basketball game. I also believe a big part of the problem is the absense of appropriate male role models. Fathers, preferably. I've mentioned riding with Omaha's Mad Dads, which puts black men on the street to simply meet and talk with teenagers, hoping to show them a better way.

As a result of Newtown we've begun our customary crisis mongering. The NRA attacking Obama because his girls are given legally required protection. Suggesting their nitwit proposal to put cops in every one of our 100K schools is a "solution." Obama, staging "gun control theatre" hiding behind little kids. Are we to believe the next Adam Lanza is going to be deterred by a limit on the number of rounds in a magazine? This is a person who shot all of his victims multiple times. One child was struck 11 times! From personal experience, I can tell you that replacing one magazine with another is no BFD. Especially if you're on a psychotic murder rampage.

The Obama approach is a classic bait and switch: talk about the obscenity in Newtown and offer "solutions" which have approximately zero likelihood of stopping the next massacre. If Congress wants to ban "assault" weapons go right ahead, I don't care. But this is a meaningless distinction, based on aesthetics, not capabilities.
We previously banned these weapons. And the ban was allowed to expire. One would have expected crime to decline while the ban was in effect and increase after it expired. Neither happened. More children die every year in this country from gun accidents than all the children who have ever been shot in one of these school massacres.

Yet we continue with this gun Kabuki. I am so sick and tired of both sides in this argument, I'm unable to express it. The NRA exploring new vistas of reactionary paranoid hysteria. The POTUS and Vice POTUS playing to their base, repeatedly trotting out one of the dumbest of all cliches: "If it only saves one life." What a crock. I'm pretty convinced that as a nation we are simply unable to have a serious discussion about the various gun problems, each of which requires a different, more nuanced approach. And when this spasm of crisis mongering has ended, we will or won't have some new gun control laws, and the NRA will or won't be able to punish some congressmen for voting the "wrong" way, but we will be no safer. Neither will our children.

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

What are the guns laws like in the European countries where IIRC there have been mass murder episodes similar to what we had in Connecticut? I am not sure but thought it was tough to legally own any sort of weapon in Norway, Belgium, Germany and other places where some of these events have occured. And a second question-right here in the US the gun laws vary from state to state-do the states with the least restrictive laws have more or less gun violence?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

More on the young man who was gunned down after a high school basketball game in Chicago yesterday. A good kid, heading to college, not in a gang. Incidentally, Simeon HS has one of the premier high school programs in the country. They are gunning for their 4th consecutive Illinois state title (a near impossibility) and are led by Jabari Parker, whose recent signing of an LOI to play for Duke was carried live by ESPN, with 300 media in attendance. The late Ben Wilson also played for Simeon. He was also rated the best high school player in the country, until he was gunned down. The Bulls' Derrick Rose also played at Simeon.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ago-state-university-20130116,0,2059838.story

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

What are the guns laws like in the European countries where IIRC there have been mass murder episodes similar to what we had in Connecticut? I am not sure but thought it was tough to legally own any sort of weapon in Norway, Belgium, Germany and other places where some of these events have occured. And a second question-right here in the US the gun laws vary from state to state-do the states with the least restrictive laws have more or less gun violence?

The European country with the least restrictive gun laws, in fact I don't know if they have much of any, is the Czech Republic. Whether Slovakia hung onto them, I don't know. They decided that after the Velvet Revolution when they let go of the USSR control they would do away with the strict laws that the USSR had. Surprisingly, there hasn't been much gun violence there at all.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

The European country with the least restrictive gun laws, in fact I don't know if they have much of any, is the Czech Republic. Whether Slovakia hung onto them, I don't know. They decided that after the Velvet Revolution when they let go of the USSR control they would do away with the strict laws that the USSR had. Surprisingly, there hasn't been much gun violence there at all.

On the opposite end of the scale is Japan. Not only do gun owners have to register each piece, they have to bring them in to the cops every year to get those licenses renewed. And if you can't account for one of your weapons and don't have the paperwork to indicate how and to whom possession was transferred, you'd better get ready for fish heads and rice at Otsu prison.

Which comes first? Tough gun control laws? Or a culture where just about everyone has the same racial, linguistic, cultural and religious background? I can tell you that I felt as safe walking around Tokyo late at night as I feel in my living room (surrounded as I am by "assault" weapons ).

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

On the opposite end of the scale is Japan. Not only do gun owners have to register each piece, they have to bring them in to the cops every year to get those licenses renewed. And if you can't account for one of your weapons and don't have the paperwork to indicate how and to whom possession was transferred, you'd better get ready for fish heads and rice at Otsu prison.

Which comes first? Tough gun control laws? Or a culture where just about everyone has the same racial, linguistic, cultural and religious background? I can tell you that I felt as safe walking around Tokyo late at night as I feel in my living room (surrounded as I am by "assault" weapons ).

I have no experience with Japan-so i cannot make any decision as to why it is so safe but my gut tells me it is not the strict gun laws and is the cultural aspect. I have a friend who practices medicine there and has always been prodding me to come over and join him. He once mentioned that he has almost no reason to have any sort of malpractice insurance. It is almost unheard of for anyone to file suit against a physician who has cared for them. He too has mentioned that it took him some time to get accustomed to the fact that you can go virtually anywhere at any time and feel perfectly safe.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

I have no experience with Japan-so i cannot make any decision as to why it is so safe but my gut tells me it is not the strict gun laws and is the cultural aspect. I have a friend who practices medicine there and has always been prodding me to come over and join him. He once mentioned that he has almost no reason to have any sort of malpractice insurance. It is almost unheard of for anyone to file suit against a physician who has cared for them. He too has mentioned that it took him some time to get accustomed to the fact that you can go virtually anywhere at any time and feel perfectly safe.

And they aren't real big on lawsuits, either. If a JAL flight goes down you can expect the chairman to publicly apologize and step down. You can also expect the company to provide generous (but not outrageous) settlements on the families almost immediately. And you can expect the families to accept those settlements. No outrageous, life altering "punitive damages" lawsuits. Designed as much to enrich the lawyers as anything else.

If you were to drop your wallet on the Yamanote Line (the Green line that circles Tokyo) you can expect two outcomes: either the wallet will still be there when that same train comes around again. Or it will have been turned in, with the money and credit cards still in it. Violent street crime, of the kind that dominates the local TV news every single night in every American city, is virtually unheard of. Homicide cops are assigned to their few murders until the case is solved (I've always assumed there is some long term time line for calling off a cold case investigation). Throughout the city there are small, police boxes (koban), generally manned 24/7 with flashing lights outside. You never have to ask yourself "where's a cop when you need one?" The answer is: "there's a cop right over there."

Don't ever reach out to open the back door of a taxi. Drivers have a pneumatic device they use to open and close the doors and they consider it an insult if you do that job for them. The reason why Tokyo cab drivers drive the way their grandfathers flew on those one way missions during the war is that the law recognizes them as "professionals." And that means you'd better get out of their way. The first few times riding in one of those cabs is a real white knuckle experience.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

The doctor friend told me about a patient of his that died of malignant melanoma. The family asked to see him-and brought him gifts. They felt that the patient died more because he did not heed the physician's advice and treatment and hoped the doctor would accept them as an apology. I was just amazed. I had thought about going there to find out about practicing-but was told very succinctly that it was possible but that I had to be able to speak and write the language within 6 months of arriving in order to continue to practice medicine there. I was never a very good language student and at the time there was no such thing as Rosetta Stone to help.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

The doctor friend told me about a patient of his that died of malignant melanoma. The family asked to see him-and brought him gifts. They felt that the patient died more because he did not heed the physician's advice and treatment and hoped the doctor would accept them as an apology. I was just amazed. I had thought about going there to find out about practicing-but was told very succinctly that it was possible but that I had to be able to speak and write the language within 6 months of arriving in order to continue to practice medicine there. I was never a very good language student and at the time there was no such thing as Rosetta Stone to help.

A lady I was verrrry close to in my AF days was British, educated at Sofia University in Tokyo, completely fluent and could even read a good bit of Katakana. Rule number one when we went out was: "Don't let on I speak a word of Japanese." She assumed, correctly, that they assumed we couldn't speak their language. And she felt like that gave her a tremendous advantage. On one occasion we were in line for a taxi at Yokohama station and a couple of young bucks behind us were discussing cutting in line ahead of us, because we were stupid gaijin (foreigners) and wouldn't know the difference. She turned around with a sweet smile and said the quivalent of "when donkeys fly out of your a*s." It's impossible for me to describe or forget the looks on their faces. Priceless.

On another occasion she had gotten some sort of ticket and we went to the nearest Koban for her to settle up. Once inside she began talking loudly that she didn't understand Japanese, that she was a British subject, that she wanted someone from the embassy, etc. etc. All the while listening to what the police were saying. The sergeant in charge wanted to know what the problem was with this crazy lady, and instructed his officers to take care of her immediately and to get her the h*ll out of there. Which is, of course, exactly what she wanted. The express lane.

Her father was an importer/exporter and general business big shot who got into Japan immediately after the war. For instance, he had the contract to handle Canada's interests at the Tokyo world's fair. She would invivte me to parties at her house where I'd be introduced to the #1 male model, the top selling pop artist, the short stop for the Yomiuri Giants, some dude from the British embassy, etc. etc. And I'd reply by introducing myself as Sgt. Pio. Both she and her sister wrote for travel magazines. Their mother for many years was the editor of Fodor's travel guide. Now there's a job I could get next to: getting paid for staying in luxury hotels and eating at top drawer restaurants. Anyway, on the occasion of Queen Elizabeth's visit to the Emperor for tea at the Imperial Palace, she was there. I should think that qualifies as an A-list event by anyone's standards.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

A lady I was verrrry close to in my AF days...

'atta boy