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Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

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Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Does it make any difference who the couple was who were raising the child in question? I have not seen anything mentioned but there was a rumor that the sperm donation was to a couple of same sex (women) who were in a civil union (gay marriage is not legally recognized in Kansas). There is a lot more to this case than has been released.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

dxmnkd316 said:
No, that's totally different. I'm not calling for pregnancy licenses for normal pregnancies. I'm talking about someone using a sperm donation for the sole purpose of getting pregnant. Completely different circumstances.
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And you're comfortable that this "limited" instrusion into the private lives of certain citizens under cerrtain conditions won't be expanded? I'm not. That's not consistent with any understanding I have of how government works.

And even though the article in question doesn't present W-4's, apparantly the ladies were doing well enough to be allowed to foster children. And their financial situation changed after the pregnancy. What then?
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Old Pio said:
And you're comfortable that this "limited" instrusion into the private lives of certain citizens under cerrtain conditions won't be expanded? I'm not. That's not consistent with any understanding I have of how government works.

And even though the article in question doesn't present W-4's, apparantly the ladies were doing well enough to be allowed to foster children. And their financial situation changed after the pregnancy. What then?
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I guess I am. I'd like to see the same procedures as are used for adoption.

It sounds like in this case they are doing just fine. I hope they are laughed out of court.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

DrDemento said:
Does it make any difference who the couple was who were raising the child in question? I have not seen anything mentioned but there was a rumor that the sperm donation was to a couple of same sex (women) who were in a civil union (gay marriage is not legally recognized in Kansas). There is a lot more to this case than has been released.
Click to expand...

It is indeed a lesbian couple. Call me a cynic but since its Kansas, part of me says that is one reason the state is being the way they are. This was a situation where they wanted a child that was part of one of them (they were already raising some adopted children). They made the agreement with the man and stated that he would never be asked for support in any way. They had the child remained together for a while then split as couples do. From what I understand they were able to support all of the children financially (I dont know what the deal with the adopted children was, how old they are etc. but Im sure they were already getting some assitance for them since that is fairly standard) and were able to support them after the split. It was when one of the women became ill and has been unable to work due to this illness that they needed assitance for the child conceived via insemination. So really the financial thing in that "were they able to support it from the get go" should not be an issue (and is something that we should never ask for the reasons Pio has said). This couple appeared to be able to do so but only after an unforseen illness did they need some help. I do wonder if it was a hetero couple if the state would go out of their way to get someone else to do it.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

DrDemento said:
Does it make any difference who the couple was who were raising the child in question? I have not seen anything mentioned but there was a rumor that the sperm donation was to a couple of same sex (women) who were in a civil union (gay marriage is not legally recognized in Kansas). There is a lot more to this case than has been released.
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This whole topic began with a report that a court in Kansas determined the sperm donor was a "father," and should be financially responsible for the child. Evidently the basis on which the court made that decision was the fact that the doctor who presided over the insemination wasn't licensed. And my initial response to that is I don't understand the rationale for such a ruling. The guy involved executed a document with the "parents" which absolved him of any legal resonsibility for the child. Why does the license status of the doc involved trump that agreement? I don't get it.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

dxmnkd316 said:
I guess I am. I'd like to see the same procedures as are used for adoption.

It sounds like in this case they are doing just fine. I hope they are laughed out of court.
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They arent the ones looking for support from the biological father. The state is trying to force the support. It is the state that should be laughed out of court.

Adoption is one thing. But I do NOT feel that people who want to go through insemination due to their own issues with becoming pregnant should be put through the long long process that adoption can be. If they want to do just adoption fine. But if you start trying to force someone who wants to have a kid on their own to go through all kinds of scrutiny I agree with Pio that are are teetering on a slippery slope we should not be anywhere near.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Proud2baLaker said:
It is indeed a lesbian couple. Call me a cynic but since its Kansas, part of me says that is one reason the state is being the way they are. This was a situation where they wanted a child that was part of one of them (they were already raising some adopted children). They made the agreement with the man and stated that he would never be asked for support in any way. They had the child remained together for a while then split as couples do. From what I understand they were able to support all of the children financially (I dont know what the deal with the adopted children was, how old they are etc. but Im sure they were already getting some assitance for them since that is fairly standard) and were able to support them after the split. It was when one of the women became ill and has been unable to work due to this illness that they needed assitance for the child conceived via insemination. So really the financial thing in that "were they able to support it from the get go" should not be an issue (and is something that we should never ask for the reasons Pio has said). This couple appeared to be able to do so but only after an unforseen illness did they need some help. I do wonder if it was a hetero couple if the state would go out of their way to get someone else to do it.
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Just for the record, I don't approve of gay/lesbian couples having children. Let them get a schnauzer. Adoption is an entirely different matter, IMO. But those are personal opinions. I'm not suggesting legislation. But I'm still concerned about letting the camel's nose into this tent. As Margaret Hamilton says in "The Wizard of Oz," "these things must be done very delicately."
 
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Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Proud2baLaker said:
They arent the ones looking for support from the biological father. The state is trying to force the support. It is the state that should be laughed out of court.

Adoption is one thing. But I do NOT feel that people who want to go through insemination due to their own issues with becoming pregnant should be put through the long long process that adoption can be. If they want to do just adoption fine. But if you start trying to force someone who wants to have a kid on their own to go through all kinds of scrutiny I agree with Pio that are are teetering on a slippery slope we should not be anywhere near.
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My mistake. I misread the original post regarding who was seeking financial aid.

Regarding the other issue, how is this any different than adoption?
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

dxmnkd316 said:
My mistake. I misread the original post regarding who was seeking financial aid.

Regarding the other issue, how is this any different than adoption?
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I'll try again. In the case of adoption, a child already exists. A child who has no connection whatsoever with the prospective parents. Conception has already occurred. And a wise society does its best to assure that when that child is placed permanently in the hands of a couple, that it makes the best decision possible.

In the case of authorizing artificial insemination, this government intrusion occurs before conception. And in effect sets government up as the arbitor of who can and cannot get pregnant, at least in some cases. To me, that's an enormous difference. One with Orwellian potential.
 
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Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Old Pio said:
I'll try again. In the case of adoption, a child already exists. A child who has no connection whatsoever with the prospective parents. And a wise society does its best to assure that when that child is placed permanently in the hands of a couple, that it makes the best decision possible.

In other words, the conception has already occurred. In the case of authorizing artificial insemination, this government intrusion occurs before conception. And in effect sets government up as the arbitor of who can and cannot get pregnant, at least in some cases. To me, that's an enormous difference. One with Orwellian potential.
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This. We may disagree on gay/lesbian couples having children but we do agree here.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

dxmnkd316 said:
And the intended use of a sperm donation is for a snuff film? :)
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Evidently you can't or won't see the perfectly obvious distinction here. I'm not comfortable with even the concept of government getting involved in our most intimate arrangements. Under certain circumstances, evidently, you are. But I must tell you this analogy of yours as between adoption and govenmental authorization of artificial insemination is fatally flawed.

-30-
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

Old Pio said:
Evidently you can't or won't see the perfectly obvious distinction here. I'm not comfortable with even the concept of government getting involved in our most intimate arrangements. Under certain circumstances, evidently, you are. But I must tell you this analogy of yours as between adoption and govenmental authorization of artificial insemination is fatally flawed.

-30-
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Hey, I already tried to agree to disagree.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
No, that's totally different. I'm not calling for pregnancy licenses for normal pregnancies. I'm talking about someone using a sperm donation for the sole purpose of getting pregnant. Completely different circumstances.
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Why not?? There's a lot of idiots out there, and do you know what they're out there doing?? Making more idiots! China realized a while ago that it just wasn't going to be able to support itself if everybody there was popping out a basketball team by themselves. They limit everybody there to just one for the most part, there's still a few remote areas where having more than one is allowed. And you know what? Those parents put a lot of time and effort into that one kid, instead of being spread too thin between 3 or 4 of the little anklebiters.
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

bigmrg74 said:
Why not?? There's a lot of idiots out there, and do you know what they're out there doing?? Making more idiots! China realized a while ago that it just wasn't going to be able to support itself if everybody there was popping out a basketball team by themselves. They limit everybody there to just one for the most part, there's still a few remote areas where having more than one is allowed. And you know what? Those parents put a lot of time and effort into that one kid, instead of being spread too thin between 3 or 4 of the little anklebiters.
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So, you want us to be more like China?
 
Re: Nice Planet, Part 2: A-holes on parade

bigmrg74 said:
Go sit down near the toy aisle in Walmart for an hour and tell me that there isn't too many idiots out there having too many kids out there.
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Your post certainly seems to prove your point. :)
 
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