NHL 2021: I Pledge Allegiance to Gritty

[Kepler]

Portland to give Seattle a whipping boy/rival?

I do not believe Portland has the size to support a team at NHL prices, merch sales, and general folderol. It's an extremely enthusiastic and knowledgeable market and hockey has deep, deep roots there, but there just are not enough people to make it cost effective.

If we did get a team it would complete an extremely cool corridor from Vancouver to San Jose, rivaling the Acela Corridor in rivalry. The 2 SoCal teams are their own thing and not connected to the PNW culture -- they are spiritually connected to Vegas.

Do you agree, Jim? If we did have that corridor maybe someday we could add Anchorage. It's only going to get more attractive and larger as the heat rises. Who knows, it could be > 1M by 2100.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Is the talk about Houston legit? I do not see that working out long term. It'll be very similar to the Panthers I think.

Were the Aero's decent draws when they were there?

Similar to Florida, I don't think Texas can support two NHL teams without lots of league welfare. All of the transplants from cold states that continue to pour into Texas every year does help a bit, but obviously they tend to continue to support the teams they grew up with and only show up for games involving their team. Football is king in Texas and you're never going to change that, even if you build a perennial winner there.

If you're looking for a city with a pro sports market that has not yet been fully tapped, a reasonable interest level in hockey (WHL Winterhawks have a good history there), and a built-in rival (Seattle), then I think Portland is it. The problem is that the only suitable arena that I'm aware of is the Trail Blazers' venue, Moda Center, which is owned and operated by the same company that owns the Trail Blazers (all part of Paul Allen's estate/trust). So even if you could work out a tenancy agreement, the Blazers are likely going to insist on having top billing and first rights for scheduling.

I do not believe Portland has the size to support a team at NHL prices, merch sales, and general folderol. It's an extremely enthusiastic and knowledgeable market and hockey has deep, deep roots there, but there just are not enough people to make it cost effective.

If we did get a team it would complete an extremely cool corridor from Vancouver to San Jose, rivaling the Acela Corridor in rivalry. The 2 SoCal teams are their own thing and not connected to the PNW culture -- they are spiritually connected to Vegas.

Do you agree, Jim? If we did have that corridor maybe someday we could add Anchorage. It's only going to get more attractive and larger as the heat rises. Who knows, it could be > 1M by 2100.

If the glaciers keep melting at their current pace, Anchorage will be underwater by 2100.

 

[Kepler]

Similar to Florida, I don't think Texas can support two NHL teams without lots of league welfare. All of the transplants from cold states that continue to pour into Texas every year does help a bit, but obviously they tend to continue to support the teams they grew up with and only show up for games involving their team. Football is king in Texas and you're never going to change that, even if you build a perennial winner there.

If you're looking for a city with a pro sports market that has not yet been fully tapped, a reasonable interest level in hockey (WHL Winterhawks have a good history there), and a built-in rival (Seattle), then I think Portland is it. The problem is that the only suitable arena that I'm aware of is the Trail Blazers' venue, Moda Center, which is owned and operated by the same company that owns the Trail Blazers (all part of Paul Allen's estate/trust). So even if you could work out a tenancy agreement, the Blazers are likely going to insist on having top billing and first rights for scheduling.



If the glaciers keep melting at their current pace, Anchorage will be underwater by 2100.

I thought it was one of those cities like Honolulu where the land rises fast as you move from the beach and most of the city is safe.

I guess they can all move inland to Fairbanks when it was Virginia's climate.

 

[Kepler]

Similar to Florida, I don't think Texas can support two NHL teams without lots of league welfare. All of the transplants from cold states that continue to pour into Texas every year does help a bit, but obviously they tend to continue to support the teams they grew up with and only show up for games involving their team.

Reminds me of my favorite Kings story. After a couple years of expansion novelty, their attendance plummeted despite some decent teams. The NHL was upset because one reason they chose the city was it had the largest population of ex-pat Canadians in the US, even larger than Chicago. So they did a survey and the result was essentially, "did it ever occur to you why we left?"

 

[Kepler]

The problem is that the only suitable arena that I'm aware of is the Trail Blazers' venue, Moda Center, which is owned and operated by the same company that owns the Trail Blazers (all part of Paul Allen's estate/trust). So even if you could work out a tenancy agreement, the Blazers are likely going to insist on having top billing and first rights for scheduling.

That building also truly sucks for hockey -- is has everything bad about a modern super-arena and nothing good. Memorial Coliseum, their true hockey venue, is way too small. And the people of Portland are far too smart to support corporate welfare to build some TD Garden eyesore.

I think Portland gets MLB before NHL and never gets MLB.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I thought it was one of those cities like Honolulu where the land rises fast as you move from the beach and most of the city is safe.

I guess they can all move inland to Fairbanks when it was Virginia's climate.

Anchorage has more of a bowl shape. It’s also fucking huge so probably not all of it will be underwater.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Similar to Florida, I don't think Texas can support two NHL teams without lots of league welfare. All of the transplants from cold states that continue to pour into Texas every year does help a bit, but obviously they tend to continue to support the teams they grew up with and only show up for games involving their team. Football is king in Texas and you're never going to change that, even if you build a perennial winner there.

If you're looking for a city with a pro sports market that has not yet been fully tapped, a reasonable interest level in hockey (WHL Winterhawks have a good history there), and a built-in rival (Seattle), then I think Portland is it. The problem is that the only suitable arena that I'm aware of is the Trail Blazers' venue, Moda Center, which is owned and operated by the same company that owns the Trail Blazers (all part of Paul Allen's estate/trust). So even if you could work out a tenancy agreement, the Blazers are likely going to insist on having top billing and first rights for scheduling.



If the glaciers keep melting at their current pace, Anchorage will be underwater by 2100.

So Kansas City it is then?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Houston has an owner, Fertitta who owns the Rockets, and an available arena. Plus it’s a huge market, has hockey history with the Aeros and is in the Central area so no division shuffling is needed.

 

[aparch]

Houston has an owner, Fertitta who owns the Rockets, and an available arena. Plus it’s a huge market, has hockey history with the Aeros and is in the Central area so division shuffling is needed.

No shuffling needed. Yotes are already in the central this year.

 

[Jimjamesak]

No shuffling needed. Yotes are already in the central this year.

I knew that and that’s what I meant, I just suck at actually typing.

No division shuffle is a huge factor in this. Vegas doesn’t want to be in the Central and Detroit nor Columbus definitely don’t want to be in the West.

 

[aparch]

I knew that and that’s what I meant, I just suck at actually typing.

No division shuffle is a huge factor in this. Vegas doesn’t want to be in the Central and Detroit nor Columbus definitely don’t want to be in the West.

After I posted, my brain went "well, maybe that's what he meant." Agreed the Wings and BJs aren't going west again. It's gonna be interesting to hear who might be interested (or already agreed) to take the Yotes.

There was rumblings when True North was making a play for a franchise, but I haven't heard the same lately. Maybe the Seattle expansion drowned out that noise.

What other ownership groups / locations have made a push for a franchise?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Houston is the fourth largest city in the US. (Then again, Phoenix is fifth and the 'yotes couldn't make a go of it there. Gulp.)

The easiest path is 'yotes to 'youston. That's my guess.

 

[Kepler]

Although "Greater Phoenix" is a myth, like Afghanistan. It's not a cohesive entity, it's made up by cartographers. It's a bunch of small cities that happen to be nearer each other than other small cities.

People in Tempe aren't going to Glendale for hockey. People in Mesa aren't going to Glendale for anything.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Although "Greater Phoenix" is a myth, like Afghanistan. It's not a cohesive entity, it's made up by cartographers. It's a bunch of small cities that happen to be nearer each other than other small cities.

People in Tempe aren't going to Glendale for hockey. People in Mesa aren't going to Glendale for anything.

Is there still the plan to build an arena in Tempe? I know I saw that bandied about in discussions.

 

[Kepler]

Is there still the plan to build an arena in Tempe? I know I saw that bandied about in discussions.

The ASU building? Far as I know, but that was never intended to be even remotely NHL capacity.

 

[Jimjamesak]

The ASU building? Far as I know, but that was never intended to be even remotely NHL capacity.

No, I thought the Coyotes had plans to build in Tempe?

 

[Kepler]

No, I thought the Coyotes had plans to build in Tempe?

Oh, I had not heard that (or didn't remember) but the city council is lax about running their plans by me.

The pic for that article is a hlarious example of what I mean that Phoenix as this monster city is a myth.

This is part of what is considered Greater Phoenix:

And that is also what half of Mesa and Glendale and all of Peoria look like.

 

[bronconick]

No, I thought the Coyotes had plans to build in Tempe?

The Arizona Coyotes hockey team plans to move to Tempe | Arizona PBS (azpbs.org)

 

[The Sicatoka]

Although "Greater Phoenix" is a myth, like Afghanistan. It's not a cohesive entity, it's made up by cartographers. It's a bunch of small cities that happen to be nearer each other than other small cities.

People in Tempe aren't going to Glendale for hockey. People in Mesa aren't going to Glendale for anything.

And I only go to Gold Canyon to mooch off a relative's house (with pool with swim up bar and infinity edge) on the golf course.

 

[The Sicatoka]

The Arizona Coyotes hockey team plans to move to Tempe | Arizona PBS (azpbs.org)

Crap.

< tears up bet stub that says "Houston" >
< throws pieces in air >