NFL 2019-20: The Patriots Are A Terrible 11-3 Team!

[MichVandal]

Totally serious. I must not have been paying attention mostly because I could not care less. I guess the Boston Breakers won't be making a comeback. I remember they played at Nickerson Field at BU when I was a student there. I had a class in the Case Center and had stopped at the McDonalds up on West Campus on the way to class and put the bag down at the front desk to get my ID and one of the Breakers' player opened my bag and took out some fries. Um, hi. That was part of my lunch. Ah, memories.

The teams that are playing are named the as some of the original USFL teams, like the Michigan Panthers. But I think they are all playing in one spot. If it sticks, next year will be interesting, as another version of the XFL will also start in the spring.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I had 0 idea there was another iteration of the USFL until this thread.

Lucky you. Every broadcast on Fox or FS1 has had a USFL commercial on it.

I’m convinced the quickest way to make money in this country is to start a spring football league. Networks seem to have an endless supply of money to support whatever idea crops up lately.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I had very little idea of it until this week. Read an article about its "innovations"

 

[Jimjamesak]

I had very little idea of it until this week. Read an article about its "innovations"

Seemingly every sports broadcast on Fox had some ad about the opener. Since most of the soccer I watch is on Fox it was constant.

For all the complaints about soccer or lacrosse or rugby being the “sport of the future”, spring football should really take that title. For like 50 years some spring league will pop up and some network will throw millions at it before it inevitably folds.

I honestly wonder how much money has been p—-ed away by networks trying to make spring football work?

 

[French Rage]

I had very little idea of it until this week. Read an article about its "innovations"

"Glow ball" is the new "glow puck"!

 

[RaceBoarder]

Seemingly every sports broadcast on Fox had some ad about the opener. Since most of the soccer I watch is on Fox it was constant.

For all the complaints about soccer or lacrosse or rugby being the “sport of the future”, spring football should really take that title. For like 50 years some spring league will pop up and some network will throw millions at it before it inevitably folds.

I honestly wonder how much money has been p—-ed away by networks trying to make spring football work?

To be fair with this, the last version of the XFL showed viability.... They just happened to start in March 2020 and we know how that went...

If done right, there is cash to be had...

 

[rufus]

I assume when the refs make the final placement of the ball, at that point they check electronically to see if there is a first down.

But where's the sensor in the ball? Or does the sensor put out a signal the size of the ball? But again, where is that signal centered at?

 

[Jimjamesak]

To be fair with this, the last version of the XFL showed viability.... They just happened to start in March 2020 and we know how that went...

If done right, there is cash to be had...

I mean, the WFL, the original USFL, the Professional Spring Football League (that never got past training camp), the original XFL, NFL Europe and the AAF all failed. A 50 year graveyard of failed and dead football leagues yet here's Fox throwing out $200 million on yet another try.

I doubt there's money to be made for someone because every rich dumbfuck in the last 50 years has tried and failed. The only one making any money on these ventures is the NFL, and that's only because they got free R&D to improve their product.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Honestly, I enjoyed the original XFL more than the NFL. I don't know why, but it was far more entertaining

 

[JF_Gophers]

But where's the sensor in the ball? Or does the sensor put out a signal the size of the ball? But again, where is that signal centered at?

They don't need a sensor in the ball to do this. Though they may use one. The NFL already has one in it for their own use.

If it's placed on the ground the electronic system could just use an image of the field to calculate 10 yards.

 

[rufus]

But it says there's gonna be a sensor in the ball.

 

[MichVandal]

I mean, the WFL, the original USFL, the Professional Spring Football League (that never got past training camp), the original XFL, NFL Europe and the AAF all failed. A 50 year graveyard of failed and dead football leagues yet here's Fox throwing out $200 million on yet another try.

I doubt there's money to be made for someone because every rich dumbfuck in the last 50 years has tried and failed. The only one making any money on these ventures is the NFL, and that's only because they got free R&D to improve their product.

The original USFL failed because dumpy wanted to move them to a fall season, so that he would have a chance of owning an NFL team. The moment they made that announcement, that was the end of the league.

Most of others failed because the product on the field sucked, which meant the costs were way too high to sustain.

But the most recent XFL version was very popular, and great promise- until the league was forced to shut down. And based on that- it's really why the USFL and XFL/AFL are trying again. The dumb thing to me is that they are trying on their own- when they really should be working together. There is significant opportunity for a minor league football system- as there's more than enough college tallent to have a decent second league. A league that could work with the NFL to develop players and rules.

 

[Jimjamesak]

The original USFL failed because dumpy wanted to move them to a fall season, so that he would have a chance of owning an NFL team. The moment they made that announcement, that was the end of the league.

Most of others failed because the product on the field sucked, which meant the costs were way too high to sustain.

But the most recent XFL version was very popular, and great promise- until the league was forced to shut down. And based on that- it's really why the USFL and XFL/AFL are trying again. The dumb thing to me is that they are trying on their own- when they really should be working together. There is significant opportunity for a minor league football system- as there's more than enough college tallent to have a decent second league. A league that could work with the NFL to develop players and rules.

There already is a successful minor league for football: college football.

Football is a massive toll on the body and minor leagues can’t pay enough to get good enough talent to be entertaining and still be sustainable. You’re not going to get many talented people to sign up for $50k a season.

You need ownership that’s willing to absorb heavy losses, like a billion plus in losses, over many years. There’s just not really any people with the money willing to do that.

I just look at all this stuff and think “same song, different chorus”. They might last a few years but by Year 3 or 4 people are going to get bored, the excitement will wear off, the money will run out and they’ll fold.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

But it says there's gonna be a sensor in the ball.

Fine. But it doesn't matter where the sensor is placed (other than to determine if the nose of the ball crossed the goal line). Because to calculate 10 yards is to calculate 10 yards. From sensor spot to sensor spot.

 

[MichVandal]

There already is a successful minor league for football: college football.

Football is a massive toll on the body and minor leagues can’t pay enough to get good enough talent to be entertaining and still be sustainable. You’re not going to get many talented people to sign up for $50k a season.

You need ownership that’s willing to absorb heavy losses, like a billion plus in losses, over many years. There’s just not really any people with the money willing to do that.

I just look at all this stuff and think “same song, different chorus”. They might last a few years but by Year 3 or 4 people are going to get bored, the excitement will wear off, the money will run out and they’ll fold.

They pay more than arena football does, which is arguably worse, since many of the players have to play both offense and defense. College football outputs hundreds of players a year that are done. Other than the CFL (which will pay more, but has citizenship restrictions) and Arena- they have no place to go. This is for that.

If you add up ALL of the teams, the entire roster doesn't even come close to $1B. There are 8 teams of 35 players, so 280 players. Call it 300 total USFL players. They are scheduled to average $45k- call it $60 with bonuses. That's $18M in player pay for now. Every game this season will be played at the same stadium in Birmingham, Alabama- so it's an unused, non-pro stadium. And no games will be at the same time as another. At most, the expenses for the season will be $50M- probably way less since they won't likely pay more for the single stadium than the players. And if it works, they will then go back to their home areas for smaller arenas. To cover that, it's not much for Fox to pay out, and sell ads.

Will it last? Who knows. But I'm betting there are enough people who would watch this that it's worth it. The entire NFL fanbase can easily be shared with the MLS, MLB, and this. Let alone the college FB fanbase who want to see other players play.

 

[SonofSouthie]

Someone's trippin'.

Las Vegas quarterback Derek Carr has agreed to a three-year contract extension worth $121.5 million, according to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler and multiple reports.
Carr received a no-trade clause as part of the deal, a source told Fowler.

 

[Jimjamesak]

They pay more than arena football does, which is arguably worse, since many of the players have to play both offense and defense. College football outputs hundreds of players a year that are done. Other than the CFL (which will pay more, but has citizenship restrictions) and Arena- they have no place to go. This is for that.

If you add up ALL of the teams, the entire roster doesn't even come close to $1B. There are 8 teams of 35 players, so 280 players. Call it 300 total USFL players. They are scheduled to average $45k- call it $60 with bonuses. That's $18M in player pay for now. Every game this season will be played at the same stadium in Birmingham, Alabama- so it's an unused, non-pro stadium. And no games will be at the same time as another. At most, the expenses for the season will be $50M- probably way less since they won't likely pay more for the single stadium than the players. And if it works, they will then go back to their home areas for smaller arenas. To cover that, it's not much for Fox to pay out, and sell ads.

Will it last? Who knows. But I'm betting there are enough people who would watch this that it's worth it. The entire NFL fanbase can easily be shared with the MLS, MLB, and this. Let alone the college FB fanbase who want to see other players play.

If you’re only calculating player salaries in your business plan, you have a terrible business plan.

First of all, you need a place to play and that means a stadium. Any stadium they’re going to play at is going to cost a pretty penny and any attendance is likely not to going to recoup the cost since the options are a) an NFL stadium at extortion prices and the wonderful optics of NFL logos plastered everywhere, b) a college stadium with bench seating everywhere (meaning you can’t charge more than $20-25 a ticket), or c) an MLS stadium where they’ll be paying a high rent cost and for the grass to replaced after every game.

Next is travel. Football teams have a lot of people and a lot of stuff so you can’t just book a few tickets on Southwest and go. You can likely still fly commercial but it’s going to cost money to fly 60+ people and the equipment. Then you have hotel costs, meals or per diem for everyone and transportation on the road.

Now, you can mitigate those costs by playing in one city but that’s only going to last a year or two before you gotta move out.

And this isn’t even getting into things like coaching salaries, training facilities, front office staff, marketing staff etc. Plus, if you start succeeding costs are to going up because people will want raises and nicer stuff.

And after a year or two, the novelty is going to wear off. Attendance will go down, tv ratings will go down and sponsors will leave. Now, you have to fight to stay relevant in a crowded market and it all costs money.

 

[French Rage]

Honestly, I enjoyed the original XFL more than the NFL. I don't know why, but it was far more entertaining

Like, how? No one ever really made use of the new rules. It was just mediocre spring football.

 

[MichVandal]

If you’re only calculating player salaries in your business plan, you have a terrible business plan.

First of all, you need a place to play and that means a stadium. Any stadium they’re going to play at is going to cost a pretty penny and any attendance is likely not to going to recoup the cost since the options are a) an NFL stadium at extortion prices and the wonderful optics of NFL logos plastered everywhere, b) a college stadium with bench seating everywhere (meaning you can’t charge more than $20-25 a ticket), or c) an MLS stadium where they’ll be paying a high rent cost and for the grass to replaced after every game.

Next is travel. Football teams have a lot of people and a lot of stuff so you can’t just book a few tickets on Southwest and go. You can likely still fly commercial but it’s going to cost money to fly 60+ people and the equipment. Then you have hotel costs, meals or per diem for everyone and transportation on the road.

Now, you can mitigate those costs by playing in one city but that’s only going to last a year or two before you gotta move out.

And this isn’t even getting into things like coaching salaries, training facilities, front office staff, marketing staff etc. Plus, if you start succeeding costs are to going up because people will want raises and nicer stuff.

And after a year or two, the novelty is going to wear off. Attendance will go down, tv ratings will go down and sponsors will leave. Now, you have to fight to stay relevant in a crowded market and it all costs money.

Simple answer, you told me off from the soccer thread when I was bothered by the fact that MLS teams spent too much time and effort to be European as opposed to American (who is the freaking royalty in Salt Lake City???). So go watch your soccer, and let the XFL and USFL fail. It's pretty clear they are not trying to get your eyes. anyway.

BTW, I'm curious how you think tripling the player salaries is such a bad estimate.

First, even if my estimate is 100% low, it would still take a decade of expenses to get to one of your throw away billions.

Second, it's reported that Fox signed a $150M/3 year deal with the USFL. Given the TV income, I'd bet that my estimate is pretty darned close to expenses.

So it would take 20 years of 100M of expenses and $50M income to get to $1B of losses.

 

[MichVandal]

Like, how? No one ever really made use of the new rules. It was just mediocre spring football.

One thing that was nice- none of the players were primadonnas. The pay wasn't high enough. Which also meant that some even knew this was their only chance. So it was kinda like college football vs. NFL. And it didn't take itself so serious to not have any fun. Unlike the NoFunLeague.