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NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

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Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

Twitch Boy said:
Here's a thought: a couple plays before the interception Wilson had to burn a timeout because the play clock ran out on him.

If the Seahawks still had two timeouts, would they have run Lynch on second down? Run Lynch, if he gets stuffed burn a timeout and try again on 3rd, if he gets stuffed again burn the other and try again on 4th.
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That's the theory. In every explanation I have heard, Carroll points out that they only had one timeout.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

CLS said:
Yes to the first two questions, plus got burned on that play by the scout team and it was pointed out to him. That was good coaching, and a coachable player.

Gutsy move too. Imagine if, instead of a slant off the pick, the receiver had run a quick out. He would have been open by ten yards, and Butler, in the space of three plays would have been the victim of a miracle and a really bad guess.
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All good points.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

Twitch Boy said:
Here's a thought: a couple plays before the interception Wilson had to burn a timeout because the play clock ran out on him.

If the Seahawks still had two timeouts, would they have run Lynch on second down? Run Lynch, if he gets stuffed burn a timeout and try again on 3rd, if he gets stuffed again burn the other and try again on 4th.
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That happened twice on that drive, didn't it? Once on an incomplete pass (which stops the clock) and once after Kearse's miracle catch (on which the clock was stopped because he was pushed out of bounds). The second one was a little understandable; it was well downfield and at first it looked incomplete. The first was inexcusable and was a play that may have cost them the game.
 
CLS said:
Yes to the first two questions, plus got burned on that play by the scout team and it was pointed out to him. That was good coaching, and a coachable player.

Gutsy move too. Imagine if, instead of a slant off the pick, the receiver had run a quick out. He would have been open by ten yards, and Butler, in the space of three plays would have been the victim of a miracle and a really bad guess.
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Browner told him to not get burned like he did in practice. So they knew what was coming
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

Kepler said:
I didn't think it was possible for me to feel worse about that play, but I do now.

He knew. He runs, from the snap, right to the point where the play will happen. That's horrific.

Great play by Butler. I'd love to know why he knew -- was this based on a discussion during film work? Did the way we lined up tip it off? Was it just the greatest guess in football history?
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Not really. He took one step back, saw where the receiver's first step was, and then ran right to that spot. As he said, he recognized the play from the formation, and he had said that he had gotten beat on that play in practice, and Belicheck took him aside and told him he had to be all over that.

It's good that he took the step and made sure this was the play, cause if the Seahawks ran a bunch of plays from that same formation, that guy would have been wide open while Butler was at the goal line in the middle of the field. Collinsworth, in one of the few things he was good on, said that seattle's defense lines up, and even though you know the coverage they're playing from the formation they're in, they don't try to disguise it or hide it. They just dare you to beat them. Apparently, their offense is much the same way.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

The Seahawks though, there was enough time during all of the Kearse stuff reviewing, that they should have had two or three plays ready to go once they got on the field. As it was, Lynch gets to the half-yard line with his first run, and they took forever getting up to the line to run the next play. Should have been bam-bam, Lynch's first run, and then right to the line and just pound him straight up the middle. Then take the timeout, run him again, and then pass, scramble, whatever on fourth down.

Anyway you look at it, their coaching staff botched that whole series.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

Priceless said:
That's the theory. In every explanation I have heard, Carroll points out that they only had one timeout.
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I forgot how many they did have, so replayed the play- Seattle had just one time out left when the play started.

Theoretically, they could have run the pass play on 3rd down- but that situation would have been pretty obvious. And it would have been somewhat rushed- if the theoretical run took some time, they may have been forced to down the ball, which would have been a very wasted play.

All in all- to have one of the 3 remaining plays have to stop the clock- passing on 2nd down seemed to make the most sense.

But put in prespective, the fact that Seattle was discombobulated on that last drive- well, that's coaching.

As for the out play vs. the slant- there's the missed guess possibility- but also fade vs. slant- with a fade pattern, Seattle had a decent height advantate, too. soo..

hindsight is so 20/20.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

alfablue said:
...

Theoretically, they could have run the pass play on 3rd down- but that situation would have been pretty obvious. And it would have been somewhat rushed- if the theoretical run took some time, they may have been forced to down the ball, which would have been a very wasted play.

....
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But I believe (not sure of this and I don't want to look for it now) that Belichick said that if the second down play had been a stuffed run that he would have called a time out. Fascinating stuff.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

My theory is this.

The Seahawks, and Pete Carroll as their coach, are arrogant. They are arrogant in the way in which they play. They are arrogant to the opposition and to the media. It's who they are. It's part of why they have been so successful these past few seasons, and why Carroll was successful at USC.

There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. When you cross that line, you can still be supremely successful. But I think you also develop the belief that it really doesn't matter who the other team is, or what they might do, or what they are capable of doing. It's just about us. What do we want to do, and when.

If you listened to Carroll's interview immediately following the game, he was like "Well, we ran on first down, then we were going to try this slant pass which we felt was the right play, and if it didn't work we would just run it on 3rd down or 4th down if necessary." There was no reflection on what the other team might do, how they might defend, the risks associated with a pass, etc...

Personally I don't have a problem with it. When the play works, the arrogance was successful. When it blows up in your face, you are left standing around like the Seattle organization with basically a look on your face like, "what just happened here?"
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

There were a lot better options if you must call a passing play on that down, than the one they chose. Throw the fade, throw something to the back of the endzone, have Wilson roll out with the ball. If none of those options are there, just chuck it into the stands and start over. No time lost, and the ball safely secure.
 
rufus said:
There were a lot better options if you must call a passing play on that down, than the one they chose. Throw the fade, throw something to the back of the endzone, have Wilson roll out with the ball. If none of those options are there, just chuck it into the stands and start over. No time lost, and the ball safely secure.
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And at least put someone in the backfield to disguise it a little.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

Bill
Knew what Carroll was calling because he checked the tapes from Saturday's walk through....
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

I just heard that Atlanta and Cleveland are getting fined and forfeiting draft picks for actual cheating (unlike the WORLD CHAMPION NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS!!!1!!!!!1!!) Where's the outrage on this?
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

TimP said:
I just heard that Atlanta and Cleveland are getting fined and forfeiting draft picks for actual cheating (unlike the WORLD CHAMPION NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS!!!1!!!!!1!!) Where's the outrage on this?
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They aren't very good so no one cares.
 
Re: NFL 2015: Let's Talk About Balls

TimP said:
I just heard that Atlanta and Cleveland are getting fined and forfeiting draft picks for actual cheating (unlike the WORLD CHAMPION NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS!!!1!!!!!1!!) Where's the outrage on this?
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just go hold your breath there timp -- it's a comin'
 
Brenthoven said:
ATL was pumping in artificial noise during games for the last two years. I don't know anything about the CLE situation.
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I think he was reacting to the barely coherent rambling of a terribly obvious and less than amusing troll, not to the details of improprieties carried out by NFL teams :).
 
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