New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

[CarlS]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

SIAP
From Mike Reiss on ESPN Boston - Pats are picking 22nd:

"With the Patriots losing to the Ravens in the playoffs, their positioning in the first round of the draft was solidified. They will now pick 22nd.

The question then came to mind: What type of player might the Patriots get at 22?

Mel Kiper's "Big Board" (Insider content) came in handy for the answer. While much can change between now and the draft, here is a feel for some of the players that Kiper, the longtime ESPN draft analyst, projects to be in the 19-25 range:

S Taylor Mays (Southern California)
DE Brandon Graham (Michigan)
LB Sergio Kindle (Texas)
TE Jermaine Gresham (Oklahoma)
RB Jahvid Best (California)
WR Arrelious Benn (Illinois)
CB Patrick Robinson (Florida State)

 

[SteveF]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

doesnt new england have oakland's pick from the seymour trade?

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

doesnt new england have oakland's pick from the seymour trade?

In the 2011 draft.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

SIAP
From Mike Reiss on ESPN Boston - Pats are picking 22nd:

"With the Patriots losing to the Ravens in the playoffs, their positioning in the first round of the draft was solidified. They will now pick 22nd.

The question then came to mind: What type of player might the Patriots get at 22?

Mel Kiper's "Big Board" (Insider content) came in handy for the answer. While much can change between now and the draft, here is a feel for some of the players that Kiper, the longtime ESPN draft analyst, projects to be in the 19-25 range:

S Taylor Mays (Southern California)
DE Brandon Graham (Michigan)
LB Sergio Kindle (Texas)
TE Jermaine Gresham (Oklahoma)
RB Jahvid Best (California)
WR Arrelious Benn (Illinois)
CB Patrick Robinson (Florida State)

If Taylor Mays is on the board at 22, the Pats would have to take him. It's the same type of value pick we got when Wilfork dropped. Other than that, I would like to see either a pass rusher or a guard to replace Neal in the first round.

yes, I said take a OL with their first pick.

 

[CarlS]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Personally, I don't see how Mays would be there for the Pats, but if there they need him. He is a Polamalu type player and the Pats haven't had a big hitting safety since Harrison.

They really do need players on D as well as a legit runnning attack, help on the offensive line and third receiver. We will have to see if Brandon Tate can be that third receiver.

My biggest concern is their D. Is there any player on that D that would cause an offensive coordinator a moments worry? They just don't have anyone that stands out. Maybe Mayo could be one of those players. I know he had a down year, but there are rumors that he tore his MCL in the first game of the year.

Would like to see the Pats use their first four picks this year, but I think we all know that the picks will be traded down so they can accumulate more picks for future years. Note to Bill - you need to address the future now and not stockpile picks for later years.

 

[Rover]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

I'd go with Edelman as 3rd receiver. See what Tate can do also and cut Aiken.

 

[Jason A]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

They just signed Aiken to an extension, I think. In a non-capped year they COULD cut him without taking a hit, but I think they like him.

They'll need a replcement for Moss after 2010, I'd guess. So WR is a draft need, IMO. So is OL, RB, and every defensive position.

The defensive landscape looked MUCH better when Belichick took over the franchise in 2000 than it does today. They had Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Milloy, etc., all in or entering their primes (thanks to, sorry to say it, The Tuna). So with the main pieces in place, Belichick brilliantly filled in the gaps with sage FA signings (Vrabel, Hamilton, Pleasant, etc.), then pulled the trigger on Seymour with his top-ten draft choice in 2001. Boom, just like that they had a great defense that would lead the team to three SBs.

Now I don't even know where to start. Wilfork (if you can re-sign him), Warren, and Mayo, I guess. Butler should develop into a decent second/third CB. I'm not sold on Meriweather anymore, though. They could use help everywhere.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

They just signed Aiken to an extension, I think. In a non-capped year they COULD cut him without taking a hit, but I think they like him.

They'll need a replcement for Moss after 2010, I'd guess. So WR is a draft need, IMO. So is OL, RB, and every defensive position.

The defensive landscape looked MUCH better when Belichick took over the franchise in 2000 than it does today. They had Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Milloy, etc., all in or entering their primes (thanks to, sorry to say it, The Tuna). So with the main pieces in place, Belichick brilliantly filled in the gaps with sage FA signings (Vrabel, Hamilton, Pleasant, etc.), then pulled the trigger on Seymour with his top-ten draft choice in 2001. Boom, just like that they had a great defense that would lead the team to three SBs.

Now I don't even know where to start. Wilfork (if you can re-sign him), Warren, and Mayo, I guess. Butler should develop into a decent second/third CB. I'm not sold on Meriweather anymore, though. They could use help everywhere.

Aiken is a decent 4th guy at receiver. He's mainly a special teams guy like Slater.

 

[Rover]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

I'm looking at this over a two year cycle. This year I'd go RB, and maybe even trade up for a higher #1 pick to get Impact Defensive Guy (preferably a pass rusher). So of the 4 top 50 or whatever picks, DE, LB, RB (may need to deal 4th one to move up).

Lower picks can fill in offensive line positions, of which they probably need one, as Vollmer, Mankins and Koppen are doing the job and somebody can fill in the other spot.

Then, with 2 #1's the following year they can go after yet another guy in the front 7, and then maybe a safety. However, there are two positions I'm adament they don't fill via the draft:

1) Cornerback. Does anybody play defense in college, and if they do is there any ability to stop the pass? I think not. Too many busts with these picks. Spend some bucks and bring in a quality veteran, not a scrap heap guy. I don't think you can expect a rookie to step in against Manning, Brees, etc and start kicking butt back there, but the Pats need help now not 4 years from now when maybe the guy develops.

2) Tight end. Sick of wasting picks on guys they never throw too. Clearly the offense isn't designed like say the Colts is, so stop using #1's on an underutilized position. There's plenty of servicable tight ends to block for you in the league at a decent price for what the Patriots use them for.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

However, there are two positions I'm adament they don't fill via the draft:

1) Cornerback. Does anybody play defense in college, and if they do is there any ability to stop the pass? I think not. Too many busts with these picks. Spend some bucks and bring in a quality veteran, not a scrap heap guy. I don't think you can expect a rookie to step in against Manning, Brees, etc and start kicking butt back there, but the Pats need help now not 4 years from now when maybe the guy develops.

2) Tight end. Sick of wasting picks on guys they never throw too. Clearly the offense isn't designed like say the Colts is, so stop using #1's on an underutilized position. There's plenty of servicable tight ends to block for you in the league at a decent price for what the Patriots use them for.

I agree with the 2nd one. The TE, when utilized properly can be a deadly weapon (clark, gates, gonzalez), but you don't need to spend a 1st round pick on one. We have drafted two TE in the first round since 2000, Watson and Graham. Watson is a freak with his size and speed, but doesn't have the best of hands, and Graham was basically a big bodied blocking TE.

I completely disagree on the 2nd one. Revis, Rogers-Cromartie, Trufant, etc. These guys were all drafted in the first round. You are not very likely to find a "shutdown" corner just sitting out there as a free agent. If my memory is correct, I believe the last first round CB the Pats have taken is Ty Law. That seemed to work out pretty ok.

 

[Jason A]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

While the Pats were trading down like panicked stock holders last April, Miami stood pat and picked Vontae Davis, who (starting opposite another rookie CB) held Moss to a couple catches the second time around this year and made a key game-changing interception. Revis gets away with bloody murder downfield but there's no denying he's one of the top DBs in the game.

I'd actually jump UP to take a DB -- NE is very young in the secondary and just about everyone back there is under contract for another year or two, so my guess is that they're going to give many of those guys a chance to develop (though I think the Wheatley and Wilhite experiments are over). If they think there's a No. 1-type corner, be aggressive and grab him.

 

[Rover]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Fair enough if they're going to trade up for the top guy in the draft (not sure how high that would be, but I imagine the usual RB and QB positions will go first) at corner. What I'm against is taking these guys with like the 50th pick. The team does not have time for a development project back there. Correct assessment on Wilhite and the like. Even if a guy is struggling, you can usually tell if he has some talent his rookie year (Samuel, and even Hobbs). These guys now have shown nothing.

Regarding available vets, I'd take a look at fleecing the Raiders again for that CB who's name I can't spell. I'm completely on board with either trading picks for top level talent, or trading picks to move up. Either way, the team needs impact players and not projects on defense.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Fair enough if they're going to trade up for the top guy in the draft (not sure how high that would be, but I imagine the usual RB and QB positions will go first) at corner. What I'm against is taking these guys with like the 50th pick. The team does not have time for a development project back there. Correct assessment on Wilhite and the like. Even if a guy is struggling, you can usually tell if he has some talent his rookie year (Samuel, and even Hobbs). These guys now have shown nothing.

Regarding available vets, I'd take a look at fleecing the Raiders again for that CB who's name I can't spell. I'm completely on board with either trading picks for top level talent, or trading picks to move up. Either way, the team needs impact players and not projects on defense.

Nnamdi Asomugha signed a 3 year deal this offseason after being franchised. So he has two years 30mil left on his deal, 18-19 of which is guaranteed. Don't think you'll be seeing him in Foxboro anytime soon.

 

[Rover]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Nnamdi Asomugha signed a 3 year deal this offseason after being franchised. So he has two years 30mil left on his deal, 18-19 of which is guaranteed. Don't think you'll be seeing him in Foxboro anytime soon.

And that's the kind of logic (the team's, not yours) that's gotten them into trouble. Sometimes you have to pay the ticket, even if you don't like it. To get a solid corner, they'll need to pay money for what is clealry a scarce resource.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

And that's the kind of logic (the team's, not yours) that's gotten them into trouble. Sometimes you have to pay the ticket, even if you don't like it. To get a solid corner, they'll need to pay money for what is clealry a scarce resource.

What you're saying is something very similar to what Felger was saying the other day (and it partly related to the Sox, but he said the Pats do it too). Make that big financial push for one player over long term instead of trying to get 3 players for short term for decent money. While I'm all for paying someone the big contract (Please for Vince Wilfork and Logan Mankins), it's also going to depend on the player. Nobody throws to Nnamdi because everyone else in the Raiders secondary sucks, so they can pick on the 2nd CB or the nickel back. If he sees action on a consistent basis, how is he going to hold up? If it's not good, you're now stuck, in Nnamdi's case, paying him 9 mil a year in guaranteed money, which will hamstring you against the cap. By going with the lower paid guys for shorter contracts (which is how the Pats won their 3 superbowls), if a guy doesn't work out, you can try again next year.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Dan Pees is out as the Pats DC. Had a meeting with Bill and agreed to step down. I don't think he was going to be resigned anyways due to performance, but his health isn't what you'd call good, so it's a smart move by him.

Kind of think after Bill's comments re: Pepper Johnson, he may be the next DC. He's worked with the LBs, DL, and played in this system. I don't think it'd be the worst choice.

 

[Rover]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

I don't blame the guy for the problems with the D, but all the same its not a great loss. I often wonder why they didn't blitz like crazy to cover up an obviously weak secondary, but the bottom line is you need talent back there, and the team is missing it in a few key positions (CB, DT).

So, whether they do it via trading up in the draft, signing a free agent, or trading picks for a veteran player, they absolutely cannot go into next year with a question mark at the top corner position. However they want to do it, using this year's picks, next years, etc - they need to grab two impact players on D in those two positions.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

This should make most of us happy: from Tang and Zo's twitter account: according to FootballScoop.com Syracuse is interested in hiring Patriots QB Coach and playcaller Bill O'Brien as their OC

 

[Jason A]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

Tatupu dead:

Former Patriots running back Mosi Tatupu has died at the age of 54, according to several news reports.

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin said Tatupu, a native of America Samoa who played 13 seasons for the Patriots, died Tuesday, but a cause of death was not known.

Barry Markowitz, a family friend, told the Star-Bulletin, "He had some health issues."

The Patriots drafted Tatupu in the eighth round of the 1978 draft out of the University of Southern California. He was born in Pago Pago, American Samoa, and was a schoolboy football star at Punahou High in Honolulu. He held the Hawaii state record for career yards for 17 years, according to the newspaper's web site.

Tatupu was the head coach at King Philip High in Wrentham, where he coached his son, Lofa, who is now a linebacker for the Seattle Seahawks. He also coached running backs at Curry College in Milton.

Mosi Tatupu had 612 carries and 2,415 yards in his 14-year NFL career. After 13 seasons with the Patriots from 1978 to 1990, Tatupu played five games for the Los Angeles Rams in 1991 before ending his playing career.

Tatupu was primarily a blocking back and short-yardage specialist on offense, but was highly regarded for his special teams skills. He made the 1986 Pro Bowl as a special teamer and was named the NFL Alumni's Special Teams Player of the Year.

Tatupu played in 202 NFL games, including Super Bowl XX, when the Patriots lost to the Bears 46-10. He had 18 career touchdowns.

He had his own cheering section at Patriots home games, "Mosi's Mooses."

"They are great fans, but just to have your own section is an honor," Tatupu said in a 2004 interview with the Globe. "It inspired me to play harder because they were cheering for me and backing me up."

At Southern California from 1974 to 1977, Tatupu was a member of the Trojans' 1974 national championship team. He ran for 1,277 yards on 223 carries in his Trojan career and was USC's Offensive Player of the Year and Most Inspirational Player in 1977.

 

[gscott13]

Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By

signed David Patten today