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New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
- Thread starter mookie1995
- Start date
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
sportsguy33
This Pack comeback makes me feel even worse about the Pats debacle. GB hanging around with balls, heart + resourcefulness. Pats rolled over.
sportsguy33
This Pack comeback makes me feel even worse about the Pats debacle. GB hanging around with balls, heart + resourcefulness. Pats rolled over.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
The worst part of this is how the players didn't seem to care that they were getting blown out. I was watching Brady after one of his numerous interceptions and it was like 'oh well'.
Where's the pride?
For this game, I'd say Faulk and Edelman really looked like they wanted it. Count Welker in there had he been able to play. The rest of them? I'm not calling them all out, but it sure looked like they didn't even want to be there. This team really misses the Bruschi's, Law's, McGinnest's, and Harrison's. Junior freakin' Seau showed more passion on the one tackle he made than the rest of the team. Ridiculous.
So, the people who either suck or don't care need to be cut. Maroney, Light, Aiken, Wilhite, fill in the blank. As far as recent drafts go, they've gotten a little better lately (Volmer, Mayo, signing Guyton). However, Belichick absolutely needs to get a quality corner in the secondary via free agency or a trade, not trying to develop one through the draft. He desperately needs an offensive coordinator. Then with their draft picks, #1 has to be the best pash rusher available, and #2 needs to be a running back.
I'm not one of these "end of an era" people. The league's not that great and the Pats have lots of talent. They underacheived this year. However, no more cheaping out. Go for the Super Bowl next year before Moss, Welker, etc hit free agency and stop worrying about being competitive 5 years from now.
The worst part of this is how the players didn't seem to care that they were getting blown out. I was watching Brady after one of his numerous interceptions and it was like 'oh well'.
Where's the pride?For this game, I'd say Faulk and Edelman really looked like they wanted it. Count Welker in there had he been able to play. The rest of them? I'm not calling them all out, but it sure looked like they didn't even want to be there. This team really misses the Bruschi's, Law's, McGinnest's, and Harrison's. Junior freakin' Seau showed more passion on the one tackle he made than the rest of the team. Ridiculous.
So, the people who either suck or don't care need to be cut. Maroney, Light, Aiken, Wilhite, fill in the blank. As far as recent drafts go, they've gotten a little better lately (Volmer, Mayo, signing Guyton). However, Belichick absolutely needs to get a quality corner in the secondary via free agency or a trade, not trying to develop one through the draft. He desperately needs an offensive coordinator. Then with their draft picks, #1 has to be the best pash rusher available, and #2 needs to be a running back.
I'm not one of these "end of an era" people. The league's not that great and the Pats have lots of talent. They underacheived this year. However, no more cheaping out. Go for the Super Bowl next year before Moss, Welker, etc hit free agency and stop worrying about being competitive 5 years from now.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
The obvious: losing Welker hurt big time. Despite Edelman (sp?) showing promise, Wes was a key to opening up that offense as a whole.
Given today's structure of salary caps and FA's, it's hard to keep a dynasty more than a couple years, unless you fill it with only a couple stars, and a bunch of well-picked role players. NE did this for a while, but now those role-players are not panning out like they planned (unlike, and I know you hate to hear this: IND).
I expect NE to have two more years like this one (close, but in reality, nothing) and maybe one bad year, then they'll come back hard, if Billy Boy is still coaching that whole time. I hate the guy, but he makes things work, from what I've seen (although, yeah, I'm not in NE area, so there may be details I don't know).
The obvious: losing Welker hurt big time. Despite Edelman (sp?) showing promise, Wes was a key to opening up that offense as a whole.
Given today's structure of salary caps and FA's, it's hard to keep a dynasty more than a couple years, unless you fill it with only a couple stars, and a bunch of well-picked role players. NE did this for a while, but now those role-players are not panning out like they planned (unlike, and I know you hate to hear this: IND).
I expect NE to have two more years like this one (close, but in reality, nothing) and maybe one bad year, then they'll come back hard, if Billy Boy is still coaching that whole time. I hate the guy, but he makes things work, from what I've seen (although, yeah, I'm not in NE area, so there may be details I don't know).
Bigus Paulus
Registered User
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Maybe it's me, but after seeing how this season went, I firmly believe that 2007 was more of a curse than a blessing. 2008 was a mulligan due to the loss of Brady.
Vanilla/one dimensional play calling and being dependant on the talent winning rather than gritty performances and out smarting/adjusting to the opposition. The Pats this season just seemed like their reputation was going to win games.
Hopefully next season will be better...
Maybe it's me, but after seeing how this season went, I firmly believe that 2007 was more of a curse than a blessing. 2008 was a mulligan due to the loss of Brady.
Vanilla/one dimensional play calling and being dependant on the talent winning rather than gritty performances and out smarting/adjusting to the opposition. The Pats this season just seemed like their reputation was going to win games.
Hopefully next season will be better...
thecomicbookguy
Nobody.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
I think the biggest problem may be Belichick's ego. As the years have gone on, and he's lost coaches/staff, he's tried to take on more of the responsibilities. Calling defensive plays after Crennel left, running the offense after McDaniels left, and making personnel decisions after Pioli left. I think he needs these people. He may be an extremely intelligent coach, but he's not infallible, and he can't do everything. Time to bring some competent people in (bring back Romeo!), and redelegate some of that responsibility.
As for the on-field product, I agree with Rover about the Defense, but I think the offense needs some work, too. They need a second down field threat. I love Welker, but he's a short pass guy who can run after the catch (and really, he won't be around next year, and who knows how well he'll be able to play when he does come back - he makes a lot of quick moves, and if his knee isn't 100%, he might lose some of his ability to cut), and they need someone besides Moss as a deep threat. Aiken is TERRIBLE.
Probably even more important than that, though, is the running game. At the beginning of the year, the local talking heads claimed that the Pats didn't need a running game, which is simply stupid. They need to be able to run for three reasons: 1) to set up the pass; 2) to kill clock in the 2nd half; 3) to punch it in at the goal line. We've seen a number of 4th quarter collapses, in which the offense can't move the ball, only runs about 50 seconds off the clock, and puts the defense right back on the field. I'm oversimplifying, but the offense basically had three plays, either a short pass to Welker (sometimes Faulk), a deep pass to Moss, or a run up the middle.
Having Welker wouldn't have prevented the first 2 Baltimore TD's, and wouldn't have helped the team any on defense. Plus, with the Ravens barely covering Moss, they'd have devoted themselves to shutting down Welker. I don't think he'd have been a factor.
I think the biggest problem may be Belichick's ego. As the years have gone on, and he's lost coaches/staff, he's tried to take on more of the responsibilities. Calling defensive plays after Crennel left, running the offense after McDaniels left, and making personnel decisions after Pioli left. I think he needs these people. He may be an extremely intelligent coach, but he's not infallible, and he can't do everything. Time to bring some competent people in (bring back Romeo!), and redelegate some of that responsibility.
As for the on-field product, I agree with Rover about the Defense, but I think the offense needs some work, too. They need a second down field threat. I love Welker, but he's a short pass guy who can run after the catch (and really, he won't be around next year, and who knows how well he'll be able to play when he does come back - he makes a lot of quick moves, and if his knee isn't 100%, he might lose some of his ability to cut), and they need someone besides Moss as a deep threat. Aiken is TERRIBLE.
Probably even more important than that, though, is the running game. At the beginning of the year, the local talking heads claimed that the Pats didn't need a running game, which is simply stupid. They need to be able to run for three reasons: 1) to set up the pass; 2) to kill clock in the 2nd half; 3) to punch it in at the goal line. We've seen a number of 4th quarter collapses, in which the offense can't move the ball, only runs about 50 seconds off the clock, and puts the defense right back on the field. I'm oversimplifying, but the offense basically had three plays, either a short pass to Welker (sometimes Faulk), a deep pass to Moss, or a run up the middle.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Ah, see these are the things I miss, given that I'm not in the area, and see all the minute details. I see the games in general (thanks to some Mass transplants at my OC and their feedback). With Welker not being around, you think Moss will be unloaded for picks/players? Do the ol' build the D, and then rebuild the O (see: Balt, Chi although they failed at that, etc)?
I can't see BB getting fired anytime soon. I think his titles bought him a few years.
Ah, see these are the things I miss, given that I'm not in the area, and see all the minute details. I see the games in general (thanks to some Mass transplants at my OC and their feedback). With Welker not being around, you think Moss will be unloaded for picks/players? Do the ol' build the D, and then rebuild the O (see: Balt, Chi although they failed at that, etc)?
I can't see BB getting fired anytime soon. I think his titles bought him a few years.
thecomicbookguy
Nobody.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
I don't see Moss going anywhere. I think Brady will return more to form next year (heard a lot of former players towards the end of '08 talk about how it took more than a season to return fully from that type of knee injury), so I think he'll still need Moss. The loss of Welker will give us a chance to see what Edelman can do - he was written up by draft scouts as a "Wes Welker clone". If he can be close to the type of player Welker is, then that will mitigate that issue.
I doubt Kraft would fire BB. I could see him walking away, though, under certain circumstances.
I don't see Moss going anywhere. I think Brady will return more to form next year (heard a lot of former players towards the end of '08 talk about how it took more than a season to return fully from that type of knee injury), so I think he'll still need Moss. The loss of Welker will give us a chance to see what Edelman can do - he was written up by draft scouts as a "Wes Welker clone". If he can be close to the type of player Welker is, then that will mitigate that issue.
I doubt Kraft would fire BB. I could see him walking away, though, under certain circumstances.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Edelman is def a Welker clone. You'd have to be deaf, dumb, and blind (like Anne Frank
) to not see that. That one catch today on 3rd down (nullified by a penalty) where he bulldozed a couple D guys for the first proves that.
I can't see BB walking away, unless his coaching powers were severly limited or he was called out. He's too proud. He's stubborn enough to say that he's smart enough to turn it around.
The thing I saw (as far as the offense) is that if you guys had a core with Welker's/Edelman's heart (Moss has it half the time, and I like the guy), it'll go a long way, despite the supposed lack of talent (defense, I'm looking at you, from what I hear from the Pats fans).
NE is still a decent team. SB caliber? Dunno. They still have the base, it's the extras that are a question mark, IMO.
Edelman is def a Welker clone. You'd have to be deaf, dumb, and blind (like Anne Frank
) to not see that. That one catch today on 3rd down (nullified by a penalty) where he bulldozed a couple D guys for the first proves that.I can't see BB walking away, unless his coaching powers were severly limited or he was called out. He's too proud. He's stubborn enough to say that he's smart enough to turn it around.
The thing I saw (as far as the offense) is that if you guys had a core with Welker's/Edelman's heart (Moss has it half the time, and I like the guy), it'll go a long way, despite the supposed lack of talent (defense, I'm looking at you, from what I hear from the Pats fans).
NE is still a decent team. SB caliber? Dunno. They still have the base, it's the extras that are a question mark, IMO.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
If it takes a QB more than a year to comeback from ACL< MCL rupture, forget about Welker next season and possibly forever. Moss apparently has been hurt, knees and back? I'm not sure BB knows what to do with a running back, maybe a decent offensive coordinator does? The D is where they need help bad, pass rusher and a corner who doesn't have to play 10 yds off a receiver would be nice
If it takes a QB more than a year to comeback from ACL< MCL rupture, forget about Welker next season and possibly forever. Moss apparently has been hurt, knees and back? I'm not sure BB knows what to do with a running back, maybe a decent offensive coordinator does? The D is where they need help bad, pass rusher and a corner who doesn't have to play 10 yds off a receiver would be nice
bottomdweller
Where my dogsies at?
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Tom Brady was not able to actually train to play for this season. I think with him being able to go into the offseason program to actually work on next year will help. There needs to be an overhaul of the O-Line. Matt Light and Stephen Neal, it was nice knowing you. Sebastian Vollmer needs to be the starting left tackle next year, and the Pats need to go draft a OG in the first two rounds come April.
Maroney is still going to be here next year. This year he learned to hit the hole and not dance around. If he can learn how to hold onto the ball, he'll be a serviceable back.
Wes Welker with most likely not play next season, or if he does, it won't be until the very end. So the Pats are going into the season with Moss, Edelman, Aiken, and Tate as their 4 receivers. I'm really interested to see what Tate can bring to the team if healthy. If he can be like David Givens to Moss as Givens was to Branch, and then Edelman in the slot, I'd be comfortable with the top 3 receivers next year.
On the defensive side of the ball, the Pats need to re-sign Bodden, probably for 2 or 3 years, resign/franchise Wilfork, and then find a pass rusher or two in the draft and another DE. Jarvis Green proved that he's a fantastic guy coming off the bench, but he's not a starter.
So, come April in the draft, the Pats' needs are:
OG, OT, DE, OLB, RB, CB
Tom Brady was not able to actually train to play for this season. I think with him being able to go into the offseason program to actually work on next year will help. There needs to be an overhaul of the O-Line. Matt Light and Stephen Neal, it was nice knowing you. Sebastian Vollmer needs to be the starting left tackle next year, and the Pats need to go draft a OG in the first two rounds come April.
Maroney is still going to be here next year. This year he learned to hit the hole and not dance around. If he can learn how to hold onto the ball, he'll be a serviceable back.
Wes Welker with most likely not play next season, or if he does, it won't be until the very end. So the Pats are going into the season with Moss, Edelman, Aiken, and Tate as their 4 receivers. I'm really interested to see what Tate can bring to the team if healthy. If he can be like David Givens to Moss as Givens was to Branch, and then Edelman in the slot, I'd be comfortable with the top 3 receivers next year.
On the defensive side of the ball, the Pats need to re-sign Bodden, probably for 2 or 3 years, resign/franchise Wilfork, and then find a pass rusher or two in the draft and another DE. Jarvis Green proved that he's a fantastic guy coming off the bench, but he's not a starter.
So, come April in the draft, the Pats' needs are:
OG, OT, DE, OLB, RB, CB
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
I do want to see the defense improve but they also need to replace Matt Light. I know the Pats have always done it with a bunch of mid-level guys on the OL but getting a pro-bowl left tackle* (easier said than done) would solidify that backside for a QB that isn't as mobile as he used to be and hopefully improve the running game.
*Or right tackle and move Volmer to left.
Edelman is def a Welker clone. You'd have to be deaf, dumb, and blind (like Anne Frank
I can't see BB walking away, unless his coaching powers were severly limited or he was called out. He's too proud. He's stubborn enough to say that he's smart enough to turn it around.
The thing I saw (as far as the offense) is that if you guys had a core with Welker's/Edelman's heart (Moss has it half the time, and I like the guy), it'll go a long way, despite the supposed lack of talent (defense, I'm looking at you, from what I hear from the Pats fans).
NE is still a decent team. SB caliber? Dunno. They still have the base, it's the extras that are a question mark, IMO.
I do want to see the defense improve but they also need to replace Matt Light. I know the Pats have always done it with a bunch of mid-level guys on the OL but getting a pro-bowl left tackle* (easier said than done) would solidify that backside for a QB that isn't as mobile as he used to be and hopefully improve the running game.
*Or right tackle and move Volmer to left.
True Blue Fan
USAF
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Well said pirate, for all the talk of a crappy defense (which is justified and correct) the offensive line has been horrible for the past two years. Really starting with the abysmal performance against the Giants in the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the anchor for any offense. If the o line is not good the offense will not be able to have any kind of consistency, and that has been evident all year long.
Well said pirate, for all the talk of a crappy defense (which is justified and correct) the offensive line has been horrible for the past two years. Really starting with the abysmal performance against the Giants in the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the anchor for any offense. If the o line is not good the offense will not be able to have any kind of consistency, and that has been evident all year long.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Agree with a lot of points out here with a couple of exceptions. I've said for years Matt Light couldn't play that position even when he was making Pro-Bowls. Its now crystal clear to everyone except maybe the coach. I can live with him moving inside. Perhaps he's better suited for that. I don't want him playing on the end though. Its too easy to get around him.
Beyond that though I don't want to waste high draft picks on the O-line. They're pretty good (Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen) and reasonably young. A big problem again comes back to playcalling, as all other teams need do is cover Moss deep and then send everybody else after Brady and to cover the short pass.
Where the draft will come in handy is get 1) a pass rusher, and 2) a running back. Both of which ought to be had. The other thing the team needs to do desperately is pay big via free agency or future picks for a top corner. No more drafting guys and throwing them into the mix. Its not working, and its no accident the team hasn't won since Law left. Sometimes you need to shell out a few bucks to get talent to fill a glaring need. This is one of those times.
The Pats can solve a lot of problems by moving guys around to fit their roles better. Bodden should the the #2 corner, not the guy covering a top receiver. Banta-Cain is the #2 pass rusher, not the top guy chasing the QB. Light can play inside, not trying to stop the other team's best pass rusher.
Oh, and a seasoned offensive coordinator is a must. No more learning on the job guys.
Agree with a lot of points out here with a couple of exceptions. I've said for years Matt Light couldn't play that position even when he was making Pro-Bowls. Its now crystal clear to everyone except maybe the coach. I can live with him moving inside. Perhaps he's better suited for that. I don't want him playing on the end though. Its too easy to get around him.
Beyond that though I don't want to waste high draft picks on the O-line. They're pretty good (Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen) and reasonably young. A big problem again comes back to playcalling, as all other teams need do is cover Moss deep and then send everybody else after Brady and to cover the short pass.
Where the draft will come in handy is get 1) a pass rusher, and 2) a running back. Both of which ought to be had. The other thing the team needs to do desperately is pay big via free agency or future picks for a top corner. No more drafting guys and throwing them into the mix. Its not working, and its no accident the team hasn't won since Law left. Sometimes you need to shell out a few bucks to get talent to fill a glaring need. This is one of those times.
The Pats can solve a lot of problems by moving guys around to fit their roles better. Bodden should the the #2 corner, not the guy covering a top receiver. Banta-Cain is the #2 pass rusher, not the top guy chasing the QB. Light can play inside, not trying to stop the other team's best pass rusher.
Oh, and a seasoned offensive coordinator is a must. No more learning on the job guys.
SteveF
* * * * *
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
speaking of welker
Everyone at hospital already hates wes welker
speaking of welker
Everyone at hospital already hates wes welker
rufus
rock and roller
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
Why do you need to run the ball when you haveTom Brady at quarterback?
Why do you need to run the ball when you haveTom Brady at quarterback?
bottomdweller
Where my dogsies at?
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
While I agree that this is a passing team, you do need a RB who can be productive enough to make the defense honest. I'm not a huge Maroney fan, but if he can continue to hit the holes and then learn how to not fumble the ball, he'd be that serviceable back.
With that said, if Maroney isn't that RB, then I pray that they don't draft one in the first round. The last good primary RB this team drafted was Robert Edwards.
Why do you need to run the ball when you haveTom Brady at quarterback?
While I agree that this is a passing team, you do need a RB who can be productive enough to make the defense honest. I'm not a huge Maroney fan, but if he can continue to hit the holes and then learn how to not fumble the ball, he'd be that serviceable back.
With that said, if Maroney isn't that RB, then I pray that they don't draft one in the first round. The last good primary RB this team drafted was Robert Edwards.
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
especially if you are only going to run the same draw play to Faulk every time you rush the ball
Why do you need to run the ball when you haveTom Brady at quarterback?
especially if you are only going to run the same draw play to Faulk every time you rush the ball
Re: New England Patriots 2009-2010, Part II - As Time Goes By
I wouldn't draft a RB with the first round pick either. I'd draft one in Round 2 however, and start clearing out the running back by committee thing the Pats have going on. The 1st round pick has to be a pass rusher. In fact, I'd like to see them package some picks to move up and get an impact player, something the D desperately needs.
What the offense needs most, and what will set a lot of things right, has nothing to do with players. They need a veteran offensive coordinator. That and a bruising rookie RB will solve a huge amount of problems. I personally don't find the offensive line to be that big of a problem beyond Matt Light, who's a good bet to get cut given his salary and the fact that his replacement is a better player. When even the people watching on TV know what the next play is going to be, how do you expect them to block the Ray Lewises of the world? Call a better game with a running option and those problems fix themselves.
So, draft linebackers/defensive line with 3 out of first 4 picks, and spend $$$ for solid corner. No more rookies back there who can't handle the position (Wilhite). They should also look into moving up in the draft. With several key guys not getting any younger (Brady, Moss, Faulk) they need to take a "win now" attitude.
I wouldn't draft a RB with the first round pick either. I'd draft one in Round 2 however, and start clearing out the running back by committee thing the Pats have going on. The 1st round pick has to be a pass rusher. In fact, I'd like to see them package some picks to move up and get an impact player, something the D desperately needs.
What the offense needs most, and what will set a lot of things right, has nothing to do with players. They need a veteran offensive coordinator. That and a bruising rookie RB will solve a huge amount of problems. I personally don't find the offensive line to be that big of a problem beyond Matt Light, who's a good bet to get cut given his salary and the fact that his replacement is a better player. When even the people watching on TV know what the next play is going to be, how do you expect them to block the Ray Lewises of the world? Call a better game with a running option and those problems fix themselves.
So, draft linebackers/defensive line with 3 out of first 4 picks, and spend $$$ for solid corner. No more rookies back there who can't handle the position (Wilhite). They should also look into moving up in the draft. With several key guys not getting any younger (Brady, Moss, Faulk) they need to take a "win now" attitude.