Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Thanks for helping me make my point. Utah is a large division 1 university. I am not surprised they have a full-time compliance officer. I can't speak to all d3 schools, but before posting I checked the staff page for my alma mater's athletics department and noticed nobody with the title "compliance officer," which means compliance is almost certainly somebody on staff's part time commitment. Given that and the relative complexity of the stated requirements it is not surprising some of these schools were not in compliance.

Wasn't there something a couple of years back about the State making a position for a SUNY-wide Compliance Officer after something went down at Binghamton?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Wasn't there something a couple of years back about the State making a position for a SUNY-wide Compliance Officer after something went down at Binghamton?

The incident you are reffering to happened with the Binghamton basketball team and it indeed was ugly.

I'm not sure on the SUNY-wide compliance officer though.

 

[Dyce]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Wasn't there something a couple of years back about the State making a position for a SUNY-wide Compliance Officer after something went down at Binghamton?

If this happened, it seems to me that it would probably apply only to the University Centers, rather than the colleges. DI and DIII compliance are pretty different balls of wax.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

It's a program for foreign students - not foreign hockey players, foreign cross country runners or foreign swimmers...all the restrictions Russell has laid out (over and over and over) are true...so unless your hockey coach is ALSO the Athletic Director and/or the Director of Admissions and/or the Director of Financial Aid, the hockey coach cannot hold all the players accountable to make sure the school is in compliance...he/she can't even make sure their team is in compliance in this area...

Ultimately, the Office of the President has to make NCAA D3 compliance a full-time focus in a part-time world to have a shot of not tripping over the swollen feet of the NCAA...

For the record, THIS is the NCAA Division III By Law 11.1.2.1: (page 47).

Note "Head Coach" - NOT Office of the President or ANYONE else.

11.1.2.1 Responsibility of Head Coach. It shall be the responsibility of an institution’s head coach to promote an atmosphere for
compliance within the program supervised by the coach and to monitor the activities regarding compliance of all assistant coaches and other administrators involved with the program who report directly or indirectly to the coach. (Adopted: 4/11/06)

SUNY Potsdam 2011-12 is trying this approach for compliance. (i.e. of note is "...athletic department's compliance officer")

Tom Curle, who is Plattsburgh's Basketball coach is also Plattsburgh's NCAA compliance officer.

 

[neumanniaknights09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

You make it sound like these young adults were all illiterate degenerates who were brought in soley to play hockey and were good for nothing else. Look at the men's and women's graduation rates and try and tell me these academic grants weren't earned in the classroom! How many STUDENT- athletes from these teams made the ECAC West all-academic teams? Or on a larger scale the all-Philadelphia area College/University academic honor rolls? I know for a fact that the men's and women's teams perform more community service projects then almost any other team on campus and the athletes from both teams are heavily involved in campus groups, clubs and activities. Also, people are forgetting Neumann is right outside Philadelphia and not out in the back woods. You really don't think the city is a big draw for International students? Common man.

 

[westscout]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Does anyone think that power schools with large amounts of Canadian players going to school for very little money are worried that the NCAA will come down on them too? Norwich and SNC come to mind. They seem to have very special financial aid for "need based" Canadian hockey players too. I would bet that Coach Dawes was just trying to do the same thing they did at Norwich...and that he did...Win a NCAA.

Let the ripping begin.

Westscout

 

[ballgame]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

You make it sound like these young adults were all illiterate degenerates who were brought in soley to play hockey and were good for nothing else. Look at the men's and women's graduation rates and try and tell me these academic grants weren't earned in the classroom! How many STUDENT- athletes from these teams made the ECAC West all-academic teams? Or on a larger scale the all-Philadelphia area College/University academic honor rolls? I know for a fact that the men's and women's teams perform more community service projects then almost any other team on campus and the athletes from both teams are heavily involved in campus groups, clubs and activities. Also, people are forgetting Neumann is right outside Philadelphia and not out in the back woods. You really don't think the city is a big draw for International students? Common man.

No one said they weren’t good at anything else. They still need to meet the academic standards.
But to say they were brought in for anything other than hockey is off base. Why else would a Canadian hockey player go all the way to Philadelphia for a small private Catholic school? I live near Neumann and really isn’t anything to lure Canadian players there except hockey.
Again no one is saying the kids don’t deserve to go to NU. The issue is the amount of money they got.
I for one don’t agree with the sanctions but I also understand why it happened

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Inside Higher Ed - ran this short article today.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Wasn't there something a couple of years back about the State making a position for a SUNY-wide Compliance Officer after something went down at Binghamton?

They could start here.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

11.1.2.1 Responsibility of Head Coach. It shall be the responsibility of an institution’s head coach to promote an atmosphere for
compliance within the program supervised by the coach and to monitor the activities regarding compliance of all assistant coaches and other administrators involved with the program who report directly or indirectly to the coach. (Adopted: 4/11/06)

"atmosphere of compliance" does not designate the head coach as being responsible for actual compliance by the institution.

"assistant coaches and other administrators...who report directly or indirectly to the coach" limits the scope of his influence to the hockey team - not Admissions, Financial Aid, Student Affairs, etc....

The buck stops on the local Campus - the entity that is being measured and held to the standard - with the Office of the President and those that report directly and indirectly to her/him...

Come on, Man...

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

11.1.2.1 Responsibility of Head Coach. It shall be the responsibility of an institution’s head coach to promote an atmosphere for
compliance within the program supervised by the coach and to monitor the activities regarding compliance of all assistant coaches and other administrators involved with the program who report directly or indirectly to the coach. (Adopted: 4/11/06)

"atmosphere of compliance" does not designate the head coach as being responsible for actual compliance by the institution.

"assistant coaches and other administrators...who report directly or indirectly to the coach" limits the scope of his influence to the hockey team - not Admissions, Financial Aid, Student Affairs, etc....

The buck stops on the local Campus - the entity that is being measured and held to the standard - with the Office of the President and those that report directly and indirectly to her/him...

Come on, Man...

I have consistently said that I do not expect the coach (unless it is Tom Curle or similar) to actually perform the compliance tasks, what I have said is that the coach needs to "monitor the activities regarding compliance" and ensure they "Git-R-Done".

The Office of the President is responsible to see that "those that report directly and indirectly to her/him..." do what is delegated to them and that means making sure the coaches meet NCAA By Law 11.1.2.1.

 

[Scott Biggar]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Of course I agree compliance is important no matter the size of the school and that somebody must do it. With my original comment I just wanted to point out that given the wall that exists between financial aid and the athletics department, and compounded by the fact that nobody was even looking for cases of non-compliance on this issue before schools like Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State got cited around the Canadian grant initiatives, it's not surprising that there was non-compliance at some schools. Now that the NCAA is making this an area of emphasis, schools don't have an excuse anymore. Every school needs systems to make sure their numbers are in order. Big and small, rich and poor.

You should note that Neumann did just what you have stated. After Geneseo and Buffalo state were cited in January, 2010, Neumann reviewed their program internally and officially discontinued it October, 2010. Of all of the schools cited so far, Neumann is the only one that has done this and that is the key fact behind them still be eligible for the playoffs this year.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

You should note that Neumann did just what you have stated. After Geneseo and Buffalo state were cited in January, 2010, Neumann reviewed their program internally and officially discontinued it October, 2010. Of all of the schools cited so far, Neumann is the only one that has done this and that is the key fact behind them still be eligible for the playoffs this year.

It does appear they were pro-active to some degree - IMO, the decided they lacked the ability or willingness to expend the resources required at bringing the program into compliance. Sister Linda deserves credit in this regard. Hopefully they can find an alternative method to the recruit the caliber players needed to win a NCAA Championship in today's game.

There is no "wall" between financial aid and the athletics department, there ARE safeguards to protect privacy -but thousands of schools are able to work within the well established guidelines for compliance.

 

[Hockeyfan2113]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I lived very close to neumann...its a freaking joke if you think Canadians besides hockey players are looking to go there. Its outside of philly and not in a great suburb...not back woods but not exactly bustling and nice. And the fact that the postseason ban was rescinded because they stopped is beyond stupid. USC, Bush was long gone when they made that ruling, Hobart Lax for god sakes got a postseason ban for their violations even though at the time they brought everything in. This is another case of the ncaa of being inconsistent and stupid.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I lived very close to neumann...its a freaking joke if you think Canadians besides hockey players are looking to go there. Its outside of philly and not in a great suburb...not back woods but not exactly bustling and nice. And the fact that the postseason ban was rescinded because they stopped is beyond stupid. USC, Bush was long gone when they made that ruling, Hobart Lax for god sakes got a postseason ban for their violations even though at the time they brought everything in. This is another case of the ncaa of being inconsistent and stupid.

Aside from "outside of philly", it sounds just like Canada to me

 

[neumanniaknights09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I lived very close to neumann...its a freaking joke if you think Canadians besides hockey players are looking to go there. Its outside of philly and not in a great suburb...not back woods but not exactly bustling and nice. And the fact that the postseason ban was rescinded because they stopped is beyond stupid. USC, Bush was long gone when they made that ruling, Hobart Lax for god sakes got a postseason ban for their violations even though at the time they brought everything in. This is another case of the ncaa of being inconsistent and stupid.

You must have went to Cabrini to think that way because no Neumann student would try and rationalize DIII hockey in the same realm as USC and the mega millions in DI football. Yes, you're right Neumann giving "grants" is definitely as outrageous as rogue boosters and agents buying players parents 100 thousand dollar homes and luxury vehicles . That must have been it. Also, for someone who lives as close to the school as you yourself claim to you must know that downtown Philly is a 15 min car ride from Campus and Villanova, Manyunk(sorry about the spelling) and Westchester ain't that much further! Oh yeah, forgot the Shore/AC was only a 50 min car ride away. Oh and duhhh Washington, NYC are all within a 5-6 hour car ride. You're right, who would want to go to a school in that area to play hockey and be a student-athlete!?

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

You must have went to Cabrini to think that way because no Neumann student would try and rationalize DIII hockey in the same realm as USC and the mega millions in DI football. Yes, you're right Neumann giving "grants" is definitely as outrageous as rogue boosters and agents buying players parents 100 thousand dollar homes and luxury vehicles . That must have been it. Also, for someone who lives as close to the school as you yourself claim to you must know that downtown Philly is a 15 min car ride from Campus and Villanova, Manyunk(sorry about the spelling) and Westchester ain't that much further! Oh yeah, forgot the Shore/AC was only a 50 min car ride away. Oh and duhhh Washington, NYC are all within a 5-6 hour car ride. You're right, who would want to go to a school in that area to play hockey and be a student-athlete!?

For the record, at a minimum, Neumann deserves a LOT of credit for the resources they have made to the program. This is NOT meant to be a sarcastic comment about the money they spent on the Canadian recruitment program, while I feel confident the coach exploited the program – as he should have, it is unfortunate the general admission office couldn’t have been proportionally successful. There was NO language in the grant that required athletic skills, etc, Neumann really just lacked the effort to recruit enough non-athletes AND they failed to tell the athletes that do to NCAA ratio guidelines they couldn’t offer them grant AND allow them to play for an NCAA sport.

That said, Neumann’s lack of close proximity to anyone means a significant travel expense (it is about 150 miles from Manhattanville & 250 miles from Elmira) - yet they make the commitment.

They are accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP) and by the Commission on Sport Management Accreditation (COSMA).

They have over 10,000 alumni for a school that’s first graduating class was in 1967. NHL player Keith Primeau was a first-round pick in the 1990 NHL entry draft, played 15 seasons with three teams (Detroit Red Wings, Hartford Whalers/Carolina Hurricanes, and Philadelphia Flyers AND graduated with a degree in liberal studies in 2011 - with his son Corey earned a B.S. in sport management.

Neumann is certainly a school worthy of any potential student’s consideration – but what happened – happened and it was wrong.

 

[OSU2010]

You must have went to Cabrini to think that way because no Neumann student would try and rationalize DIII hockey in the same realm as USC and the mega millions in DI football. Yes, you're right Neumann giving "grants" is definitely as outrageous as rogue boosters and agents buying players parents 100 thousand dollar homes and luxury vehicles . That must have been it. Also, for someone who lives as close to the school as you yourself claim to you must know that downtown Philly is a 15 min car ride from Campus and Villanova, Manyunk(sorry about the spelling) and Westchester ain't that much further! Oh yeah, forgot the Shore/AC was only a 50 min car ride away. Oh and duhhh Washington, NYC are all within a 5-6 hour car ride. You're right, who would want to go to a school in that area to play hockey and be a student-athlete!?

your argument is a little off, no one goes to Oswego (5:08), Plattsburgh (5:38), Norwich(4:41), Elmira(4:03), Bowdoin(6:15)... because its only a 5-6 hour car drive from NYC, unless their from NYC. (drive times from locations to NYC per google maps)

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

your argument is a little off, no one goes to Oswego (5:08), Plattsburgh (5:38), Norwich(4:41), Elmira(4:03), Bowdoin(6:15)... because its only a 5-6 hour car drive from NYC, unless their from NYC. (drive times from locations to NYC per google maps)

This is only about an hour from Plattsburgh, it might help explain why their ratio is in-line.

 

[ironpuck]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

They are accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP) and by the Commission on Sport Management Accreditation (COSMA).

But not by the American Chemical Society.