Nescac 2009/2010

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Would seem there are many things you have not seen

"or to what degree you have financial need."

Clearer now? BTW... you think "need" is referring to what? Just hazarding a guess here but...$$$...financial.

You are right, in that they are basing their admissions decisions without regard to financial means, and this though is not specific to NESCAC schools, in fact all but scam schools do not look at the students ability pay when making admissions decisions. That said, as I've noted previously: ending up being on the same page as the financial aid office afterword’s is another - their interpretation of the "expected family contribution" is not necessarily going to be the same as the students reality. Being admitted, DOES NOT mean they are guaranteeing you can afford it, they will make an offer they feel you might be able to meet, but reality may be different.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Glad to help you out
From Amherst website.

"Amherst is need-blind for both domestic and international applicants. In the 2008-09 admission cycle, Amherst extended its need-blind admission policy for domestic applicants to international applicants as well. This means Amherst will make your admission decision without considering whether you apply for aid or to what degree you have financial need."

From the Williams website

Williams has a 100% need-blind/no-loan admission policy.

Put simply, your financial circumstances will not affect your chance of admission to Williams in any way. Because we believe our community should include the best from all backgrounds, there is no limit on financial aid expenditures.

From the Middlebury website

" Our "need-blind" admissions policy ensures that your application to Middlebury will not be affected by your application for financial aid. In the case of international students and transfer students, Middlebury follows a need-blind admissions policy to the extent that financial resources allow.



Originally posted by d3 follower


You have to have a brain

Most of us know that there is such a thing as "need blind admissions policy" at the NESCACs. However, that is not what you said as you referred to the existence of something called "need blind financial aid." That does not exist as even the NESCACs cannot give financial aid to those who do not need it. . .

 

[NUProf]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

their interpretation of the "expected family contribution" is not necessarily going to be the same as the students reality.

However, the calculation uses the same formula for all schools according to the "blessed" formula calculated from the FAFSA.

There are schools which guarantee that the difference between expected family contribution and cost of attendance will (1) be filled by the institution, and (2) not require any loans.

"Need blind admissions" usually means that despite such a commitment on the part of financial aid, the admissions department won't consider this in evaluating whether or not to let somebody in.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

However, the calculation uses the same formula for all schools according to the "blessed" formula calculated from the FAFSA.

There are schools which guarantee that the difference between expected family contribution and cost of attendance will (1) be filled by the institution, and (2) not require any loans.

"Need blind admissions" usually means that despite such a commitment on the part of financial aid, the admissions department won't consider this in evaluating whether or not to let somebody in.

Yes, all schools, directly or indirectly receiving federal money, in addition to Title IX, must meet volumes of criteria and the good old SAR (Student Aid Report) generated from filing the FAFSA, must be followed.

And, meeting "difference between expected family contribution and cost of attendance " is not the same as meeting difference between what the student can pay and and cost of attendance .

 

[NUProf]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Yes, all schools, directly or indirectly receiving federal money, in addition to Title IX, must meet volumes of criteria and the good old SAR (Student Aid Report) generated from filing the FAFSA, must be followed.

And, meeting "difference between expected family contribution and cost of attendance " is not the same as meeting difference between what the student can pay and and cost of attendance .

Having sent kids to college, I can tell you that what the formula says the family can afford and what the family can actually afford are quite different. OTOH, at least theoretically, if the SAR says that the family can pay 20,000, then a school with a cost of 30,000 will be able to give 10,000 in FA, while a school with a cost of 40,000 can give the same student 20,000. In each case, the student is on the hook for the same amount. Ways of gaming the system: Increase the cost of attendance beyond the actual cost of attendance, or find ways of reducing the expected family contribution.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Having sent kids to college, I can tell you that what the formula says the family can afford and what the family can actually afford are quite different. OTOH, at least theoretically, if the SAR says that the family can pay 20,000, then a school with a cost of 30,000 will be able to give 10,000 in FA, while a school with a cost of 40,000 can give the same student 20,000. In each case, the student is on the hook for the same amount. Ways of gaming the system: Increase the cost of attendance beyond the actual cost of attendance, or find ways of reducing the expected family contribution.

Exactly, in the 1980's, I spent two summers working in the Financial Aid office at SUNY Plattsburgh. Ever since, among the children, friends and acquaintances of my 40+ aunts and uncles (both my parents come from families of 10), I have been expected "to know everything about financial aid", well, believe it or not, I don't, but I do regular, annual research and know much more than the average bear, completing about 5 or 6 FAFSA's and reviewing SAR's and financial aid packages EACH year, from a large variety of schools (at least 100 SAR’s and over 60 institutions) . From the best I can determine, the SAR and the expected family contribution (EFC) is what the government formula gurus determine the family can afford - IF they started saving for college from birth, and if they didn't, well to bad, expect a large gap to exist (between the EFC and actual FC). A good financial aid officer might suggest writing a letter explaining extenuating circumstances, such a recent significant family medical situation or other major cost (in addition to sickness, I have seen the loss of a primary residence effect the EFC) and higher than average expenses can sometimes be found, such as the need for DME’s (Durable Medical Equipment such as CPAP or BiPAP machines).

 

[Euler18]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Bowdoin always baffles me......somehow lacking a championship "gene".

Or perhaps dependable goaltending.

 

[Euler18]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Euler, you are right about Bowdoin, they are always strong, again their top recruit from Exeter will score but he too is not fleet afoot, Middlebury is really fast, and Amherst will be in every game because of their goaltending. Trinity and Conn College also have great goaltending. Should be another great season in a conference with true student-athletes.

Your assessment is very sound.

Allow me just two additional comments about Bowdoin:

1. The Polar Bears used to be known for being small and fast. Old timers remember forwards like Dick Donovan, Steve Thornton, John McGeough, Brad Chin, Steve Kashian, Charlie Gaffney, and more recently Mike Carosi, among others, not to mention the great defenseman (and my classmate at Bowdoin), the late Bob Kullen. Except for Thornton and Kashian, the others were All America selections.

2. Cornell has been very successful with big players who don't look terribly fast but always seem to get the job done. On the other hand, Cornell doesn't play the kind of up-tempo game that Bowdoin is known for...

 

[d3follower]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Your assessment is very sound.

Allow me just two additional comments about Bowdoin:

1. The Polar Bears used to be known for being small and fast. Old timers remember forwards like Dick Donovan, Steve Thornton, John McGeough, Brad Chin, Steve Kashian, Charlie Gaffney, and more recently Mike Carosi, among others, not to mention the great defenseman (and my classmate at Bowdoin), the late Bob Kullen. Except for Thornton and Kashian, the others were All America selections.
.

You forgot Bobby Devaney - very small very fast and also an all-American.

 

[neverplayed]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Thanks, you guys seem to follow Bowdoin more than I do, but I saw them 2-3 times last year and was struck by their lack of speed. Thay had some fast guys in the back, but upfront they had too many North/South skaters. The game is changing at all levels including the NHL. Bowdoin should be much quicker upfront if they are going to play with Middlebury and Amherst. BTW, when you have grinder type players and solid but not outstanding goaltending average teams will be able to give you a tough game every time out. Bowdoin has a large roster, if they can add 30% more speed they may score more and not put as much pressure on their Goaltending. Middlebury is very quick that can be very intimidating.

 

[Euler18]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

You forgot Bobby Devaney - very small very fast and also an all-American.

Thanks for reminding me, d3follower. How could I have forgotten Bob Devaney? He was a joy to watch. The first time I noticed Devaney was when, as a sophomore at Bowdoin, he scored a magnificent goal at the Madison Square Garden Holiday Tournament, after outskating a Saint Lawrence player. His speed made him especially dangerous.

 

[Euler18]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Thanks, you guys seem to follow Bowdoin more than I do, but I saw them 2-3 times last year and was struck by their lack of speed. Thay had some fast guys in the back, but upfront they had too many North/South skaters. The game is changing at all levels including the NHL. Bowdoin should be much quicker upfront if they are going to play with Middlebury and Amherst. BTW, when you have grinder type players and solid but not outstanding goaltending average teams will be able to give you a tough game every time out. Bowdoin has a large roster, if they can add 30% more speed they may score more and not put as much pressure on their Goaltending. Middlebury is very quick that can be very intimidating.

Again, a very sound analysis. Still, I think that relatively slow players like Aaron O'Callahan -- can you ask for better genes? -- and Jeff Fanning have the potential to score more consistently. O'Callahan had some trouble adjusting to the Bowdoin system, but we should see progress from him -- and, hopefully, fewer untimely penalties. I like Fanning. He always gives you an honest, hard-working game. I believe the keys up front, however, are a return to top form by Ryan Blossom, who had sort of an off-year (for a player with his talent) in 2008-2009, and a banner year from Colin McCormick.

It looks like pretty soon we may need to start a Bowdoin-dedicated thread even though this NESCAC thread has been both informative and fun.

 

[polarbear2]

Nescac 2009/2010

****bump****

 

[Jim]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Colby lost a tremendous amount last year. They had to replace 2 All-americans and their 3 leading scorers. That is asking alot. But I suspect that they'll be improved with a year of experience, though probably still a year away from really competing for the NESCAC title.

 

[canadianhockeyguy]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I know I've posted this before, but here is an interesting NESCAC site that should prompt some discussion. It's very well done, and an interesting read:

http://nescachockey.wordpress.com/

 

[neverplayed]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Clayton, Steele, Brock and Bandazian are certainly difference makers. The intangible is how to the teams jell and the combinations the coaches decide to put on the ice. Middlebury and Amherst will be very tough, their recruiting looks on paper to be a cut above the resr. But i remember two years ago Trinity came out of no where to win the title. I am not sure who the NESCAC darkhorse will be this season. Maybe Trinity or Conn College or even Bowdoin now that the expectations are lower for them. It will be an intersting season of excellent hockey.

 

[doncheery]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

In 05//06 Beaney cut Dman Kyle Kozaria ( heavily recruited Dl ) who had an outstanding freshman year ( 04/05 ) with 10 goals and 6 assists. Beaney strikes again in in 09/10

 

[neumyer]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

In 05//06 Beaney cut Dman Kyle Kozaria ( heavily recruited Dl ) who had an outstanding freshman year ( 04/05 ) with 10 goals and 6 assists. Beaney strikes again in in 09/10

Not quite! Koziara debuted in 2005-06 and played briefly in the 2006-07 season before being banished as a sophomore.

 

[doncheery]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

You're right ...typo as to year. Point being...for the most part a repeat scenario.I know the player involved. Individualistic yes, but a good citizen. Creative and skilled on the ice. Obviously did not fit the mold that Coach has for his players. Midd is a Liberal Arts school, one would hope that the personalities they attract are somewhat eclectic. Beaney himself has been known to have a few eccentricities.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

It's been a while since a Beaney banishing. I seem to recall a bunch of them in 2003-04, including a guy who had scored 38 points the year before, but those were later in the year and were followed by a national championship.