Nescac 2009/2010

[Mainehockeyman]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I never said that Hamilton was going to wina NESCAC championship i just mean that they are getting good fast and that very soon they will be as much as a threat as maybe middleburry or amherst in the divison.

that statement had nothing to do with the NESCAC...Utica's record against Hamilton is 3-2-2 and i didn't see that as being far better

 

[NorthernBlizzard]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Most interesting will be seeing how well NESCAC continues to compete with other conferences where recruits are predominantly players with significant junior experience.

Crucial factor. That is where Amherst might have an edge as almost all their recruits played Jr. Even the Prep guys like Hew went and played a year in the EJ. With two Dl transfers ( Brock at Holy Cross had a great freshman year and then fell out of favor..will be interesting) and all Jr recruits if not this year then next they will be a factor.
Amherst

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Brandon Hew Green Mtn Glades (EJHL) Defense 35gp-2-9-11 2009 Allstar, includes games with Bridgewater Bandits

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Nathan Corey NE Huskies (EJHL) Goalie 16gp 3.29 GAA .899 SV%

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Jamie Hawkrigg Milton Icehawks (OPJHL) Defense 32gp-4-13-17

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Joe Brock Holy Cross (Atlantic Hockey D1) Forward 8gp-1-0-1 Will be a Junior

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Jake Hannon Army (Atlantic Hockey D1) Defense 13gp-0-3-3 Will be a Sophomore

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Nick Brunette Blake School (MN) Forward

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Nic Garafolo Holderness School Defense ?gp-0-4-4

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Mike Moher Mississauga Chargers (OPJHL) Forward 49gp-25-41-66

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Dylan Trumble Calgary Canucks (AJHL) Forward 60gp-13-22-35

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Johnny Van Siclen Bridgewater Bandits (EJHL) Forward 32gp-9-20-29

 

[neumyer]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

NESCAC will be a battle. Not sure how Midd ends up as the favorite in many prognosticators sheets....too many questions to be answered. Several teams, Midd and Amherst, need to have leadership step up with the graduation of Landers, Covelli, Graddock and McKenna...who's it gonna be??

Does Midd have a goaltender coming in?

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Just wondering what your definition of a "true student -athletes" is. I was under the understanding that all divIII players are true student athletes.

Euler, you are right about Bowdoin, they are always strong, again their top recruit from Exeter will score but he too is not fleet afoot, Middlebury is really fast, and Amherst will be in every game because of their goaltending. Trinity and Conn College also have great goaltending. Should be another great season in a conference with true student-athletes.

 

[oldguard]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Just wondering what your definition of a "true student -athletes" is. I was under the understanding that all divIII players are true student athletes.

Charlie, thank you for bringing that up, I was just getting ready to ask who he was aiming at with that subtle little dig.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Charlie, thank you for bringing that up, I was just getting ready to ask who he was aiming at with that subtle little dig.

Perhaps related to this?

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Perhaps you are correct, but to group all the "other DivIII" players with this obvious violation is wrong. The statement sounds like and smells like a dig at non-nescac teams. Just how I see it.

Perhaps related to this?

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Perhaps you are correct, but to group all the "other DivIII" players with this obvious violation is wrong. The statement sounds like and smells like a dig at non-nescac teams. Just how I see it.

I agree, and also IMO, it was such an "obvious violation", that I can not believe there was any malice from anyone (Jim, NEC, or the NCAA), but rather either a failure by someone at the NCAA (negligence perhaps, malice - no), to thoroughly go over what NEC so publically stated. IMO, all teams in DIII sincerely intend to field "true student athletes".

 

[NUProf]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I agree, and also IMO, it was such an "obvious violation", that I can not believe there was any malice from anyone (Jim, NEC, or the NCAA), but rather either a failure by someone at the NCAA (negligence perhaps, malice - no), to thoroughly go over what NEC so publically stated. IMO, all teams in DIII sincerely intend to field "true student athletes".

Some of the best students that I had a Norwich were kids who came to NU as hockey players after a stint in Juniors. I won't name names, because that is a violation of FERPA ... one act I'm really glad not to be dealing with any more.

 

[neverplayed]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

There was no dig, just facts. The NESCAC has players who for the most part are excellent students and virtually all of them play four years and graduate. Other schools outside the NESCAC may have players with less academic accomplishment a freshman but still graduate a large percentage of their players , that is a great thing and what eduacation and sports are all about. To me there is a trend where some DIII schools are getting players who are dubious students and unlikely to graduate, what's sad is no one cares. The landscape in DIII hockey is changing, my opinion is, that trend is not good for the sport.

 

[elbojpb]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

To me there is a trend where some DIII schools are getting players who are dubious students and unlikely to graduate, what's sad is no one cares.

But given the opportunity to attain a degree nonetheless, the operative word being 'opportunity.'

Many of us in the fandom of non-Nescac institutions take quick exception to anything smelling of perceived elitism.

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

In some cases it is not "perceived".

But given the opportunity to attain a degree nonetheless, the operative word being 'opportunity.'

Many of us in the fandom of non-Nescac institutions take quick exception to anything smelling of perceived elitism.

 

[neverplayed]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I am far from an elitist, College Hockey is an amazing experience. The trend at some DIII schools is marginal student Junior players from Canada, or kids who are virtually rented for ayear or two, that will have conferences like the NESCAC be at a big disadvantage. If DIII hockey goes the route of weak schools with rented students becoming dominant, I think interest level will drop considerably. Hopefully it doesn't happen.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I am far from an elitist, College Hockey is an amazing experience. The trend at some DIII schools is marginal student Junior players from Canada, or kids who are virtually rented for ayear or two, that will have conferences like the NESCAC be at a big disadvantage. If DIII hockey goes the route of weak schools with rented students becoming dominant, I think interest level will drop considerably. Hopefully it doesn't happen.

Are you sure these "marginal student Junior players from Canada" are "virtually rented for a year or two", or might the trend be related to economic or other issues that the schools and/or students have little or no control over - despite starting out with the purist of intentions (such as Plattsburgh's Pier-Luc Belanger going to his first choice - RCMP or Bryan Hince taking a shot at going Pro)? A trend or unfortunate reality by students whose realistic financial plans steer them away from more pricey schools?

NESCAC elitist? – perhaps not by deliberate attempt, but certainly private schools with a tendency to cast a certain image – by mere virtue of their demographics and historical performance.

Making a claim that there is intent on the part of any school, to "virtually rented for a year or two" a student athlete – without even antidotal evidence – certainly seems to me, to be evidence of blatant elitism – if not your intent, it is how it came across to me.

 

[zamboney]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Originally posted by norm 1909

A trend or unfortunate reality by students whose realistic financial plans steer them away from more pricey schools?

With "need blind financial aid " available at many of the NESCAC schools , if a student has financial needs then theoretically Plattsburgh should not cost a student less than Williams. Often if the need is profound Williams will cost less. The question is can the student/athlete's marks get him in.

Assuming yes, then one can theorize that a student /athlete at one of the NESCAC schools like Williams , Bowdoin, Midd or Amherst has career opportunities far surpassing that of playing minor minor pro in the ECHL, CHL, etc etc. Hence a greater awareness and financial incentive of the benefits of staying in school.
Making thirty grand a year in the EC and sharing an apt with 3 other guys as opposed to graduating from Williams and potentially stepping into 60-80 K job begs the question "How much do you love the game?"
Easier to leave a SUNY school to make 30 k than a NESCAC. Elitist? Maybe...realistic...for sure.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

With "need blind financial aid " available at many of the NESCAC schools , if a student has financial needs then theoretically Plattsburgh should not cost a student less than Williams. Often if the need is profound Williams will cost less. The question is can the student/athlete's marks get him in.

Assuming yes, then one can theorize that a student /athlete at one of the NESCAC schools like Williams , Bowdoin, Midd or Amherst has career opportunities far surpassing that of playing minor minor pro in the ECHL, CHL, etc etc. Hence a greater awareness and financial incentive of the benefits of staying in school.
Making thirty grand a year in the EC and sharing an apt with 3 other guys as opposed to graduating from Williams and potentially stepping into 60-80 K job begs the question "How much do you love the game?"
Easier to leave a SUNY school to make 30 k than a NESCAC. Elitist? Maybe...realistic...for sure.

It is true that the endowments and resources of many of the NESCAC schools and their private status allow the flexibility of meeting the financial aid needs more easily than public schools, particularly when it comes to "Canadian Students" as they do not qualify for the mainstay of public schools - the Federal Pell & Student Loan programs, nor the state run tuition assistance programs. And, since preference can not be given for potential athletic performance, that avenue is not a factor. But "need blind financial aid", is something I have never heard of, financial aid has always been based on need, and often takes account of more than economic need, but other factors such as academic ability/special needs, and as noted place of residence. Yes, theoretically Plattsburgh should not cost a student less than Williams, but only with a "blessed alignment of the stars".

Making thirty grand a year in the EC and sharing an apt with 3 other guys as opposed to graduating from Williams and potentially stepping into a 60-80K job begs the question "How much do you love the game?"

I will admit, in the real-world job market, who you know (network) carries a lot more weight than “what you know” a vast majority of the time. That is certainly a significant reason why students choose NESCAC schools over more economical public schools, and I am sure also plays into willingness of parents to takeout a second mortgage to keep their child in school.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

I want some of that "need blind financial aid"!!!

 

[zamboney]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

need blind financial aid[/I]", is something I have never heard of,.

Glad to help you out
From Amherst website.

"Amherst is need-blind for both domestic and international applicants. In the 2008-09 admission cycle, Amherst extended its need-blind admission policy for domestic applicants to international applicants as well. This means Amherst will make your admission decision without considering whether you apply for aid or to what degree you have financial need."

From the Williams website

Williams has a 100% need-blind/no-loan admission policy.

Put simply, your financial circumstances will not affect your chance of admission to Williams in any way. Because we believe our community should include the best from all backgrounds, there is no limit on financial aid expenditures.

From the Middlebury website

" Our "need-blind" admissions policy ensures that your application to Middlebury will not be affected by your application for financial aid. In the case of international students and transfer students, Middlebury follows a need-blind admissions policy to the extent that financial resources allow.



Originally posted by d3 follower

I want some of that "need blind financial aid"!!!

You have to have a brain

 

[norm1909]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

From Amherst website. Glad to help you out

"Amherst is need-blind for both domestic and international applicants. In the 2008-09 admission cycle, Amherst extended its need-blind admission policy for domestic applicants to international applicants as well. This means Amherst will make your admission decision without considering whether you apply for aid or to what degree you have financial need."

From the Williams website

Williams has a 100% need-blind/no-loan admission policy.

Put simply, your financial circumstances will not affect your chance of admission to Williams in any way. Because we believe our community should include the best from all backgrounds, there is no limit on financial aid expenditures.

From the Middlebury website

" Our "need-blind" admissions policy ensures that your application to Middlebury will not be affected by your application for financial aid. In the case of international students and transfer students, Middlebury follows a need-blind admissions policy to the extent that financial resources allow.



Originally posted by d3 follower


You have to have a brain

I have never seen "financial aid" - spelled admissions, hummm? Being admitted without regards to the ability to pay is one thing, ending up being on the same page as the financial aid office afterword’s is another - their interpretation of the "expected family contribution" is not necessarily going to be the same as the students reality.

 

[zamboney]

Re: Nescac 2009/2010

Would seem there are many things you have not seen

"or to what degree you have financial need."

Clearer now? BTW... you think "need" is referring to what? Just hazarding a guess here but...$$$...financial.