NCAA Tourney Team Selection Options

[FredsDeadFriend]

Well, A guy should admit it when he is wrong. Can someone tell me how it happened that SCSU played UMD 6 times in conference, but only played UND twice? I'm sure it has to do with the 'pod' thing they played at Omaha early.

That's not as bad. However, for this year, when I'm not sure how you separate SCSU and Wisconsin (does someone have some reasoning about that one?), I would rather place Wisconsin in the Fargo regional, if they can squeeze a bus trip out of 501 miles, rather than SCSU, just for the sake of a new opponent.

If the Badgers would have to fly, I'd say that doesn't need to happen.

Gopher women's team played #3 OSU 6 times, and #2 UW 4 times in the regular season, while playing each of the bottom 3 teams only twice each. No sense to it, just how it played out. And unfortunately they were PUNISHED for playing such a tough schedule. Happens far more often in the B1G than it doesn't.

 

[J.D.]

Incredibly, AIC plays tonight for the first time since Jan. 30. The three other teams have been consistently playing. If AIC were to slip up this weekend I absolutely think that will be taken into consideration and the committee will throw them a bone and put two Atlantic teams in.

 

[manurespreader]

Just FYI. Lowell plays a similar game to LSSU except smaller, slower, and less physical. LSSU is big especially on defense and they have excellent goaltending.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

There has been an obvious Eastern Bias in the NCAA Hockey Administration for decades. Western teams have dominated college hockey overall, and of course there has been plenty of exceptions which I believe personally were helped to occur by the manipulations of the Eastern biased types in positions of control. These Eastern biased types have used their power to do all they can to manipulate the situation to favor their Eastern teams. Their tactics have changed over time, most recently, ever since 4 WCHA teams made the Frozen Four all in the same season, NCAA hockey has gone out of their way to try to manipulate things to prevent this from ever happening again, usually by making sure at least one regional is made up of only Eastern teams. Another technique they have turned to is making sure Western teams have to do more traveling come tourney time. Why, for example, with 5 NCAA Div 1 Men's teams residing in Minnesota, does the state of Minnesota only get to host ONE Frozen Four and ZERO Regionals over the next 6 years? Is it because Minnesota teams are such a threat to Eastern teams? In the past UMn was always a threat, but all the Minnesota teams were crammed into the same conference and UMn had a recruiting advantage, and Minnesota teams would take each other out, it was almost impossible for all of them to make the tourney, much less get to the Frozen Four. But ever since the creation of the B1G conf, which broke up the Minnesota schools into 3 different conferences, lessening the recruiting advantage UMn had over the other Mn based teams, the other Mn based teams have flourished, UMD is easily the most dominant team in all of college hockey the last decade, and SCSU has ranked very high in the rankings as well, and now Mankato is showing themselves to have the potential to not only make the tourney, but also the Frozen Four with a decent chance to win the Natl Title. Oh, and did I mention that UMn has regained their mojo and Bemidji St could also make it into the tourney as well? Does anyone believe any of these Mn based programs are going to whither and go away? More than likely they will continue to improve. So the Eastern biased NCAA Admins will seemingly avoid giving Minnesota based teams any advantages, especially the Gophers.

And even when the West does get tournament sites, they often still force Western teams to have to travel more than eastern teams ever will have to.

I'm sure some will claim that I am imagining things. Well...

From 2019 to 2026, the state of Mass gets 5 NCAA Regionals/FFs, New Hamp gets 4, NY gets 4, Conn gets 2, and Rhode Island gets 2. Oh, and Pennsylvania, a state with just 1 college hockey program, gets SIX.
That is 23 out of the 40 sites compared to just 15 for purely western sites, I figure both Tampa and Ohio are pretty nuetral. And yes PSU plays in a Western Conf, but geographically it is closer to eastern teams than to western teams. I'll admit I'm not sure if Penn sites are close enough to bus to for Eastern teams or not? But all but 1 western team will have to fly there, with the possible exception of Ohio based teams maybe?. The West only gets 15 sites, but with 4 of those being Colorado, that means flights for all but 2 western teams. Missouri gets 2, a Regional and a FF, so flights for every team going there, as there are no Missouri based hockey programs, are there? North Dakota gets 4 Regionals despite having only 1 team, South Dakota with ZERO teams, gets more tournaments than Minnesota with 2. And I'm counting Nevada as one of those 15 despite it having ZERO programs meaning travel for 100% of teams playing there. Granted it's a Frozen Four, so eastern teams will also have to travel as well, and flights to Vegas are super cheap(maybe the FF should be in Vegas every year?). Now I understand that the ND and SD tournaments are short bus rides for all Minnesota based teams, but they are still NOT Minnesota sites, so THE STATE OF HOCKEY gets 1 hockey tournament out of 40 possibilities? This is absolutely proof of an anti-Minnesota bias which is just the concentration of an anti-western bias among those running shit in NCAA hockey.

 

[J.D.]

Dear lord

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Dear lord

Can you refute what I wrote? No, you can't.

 

[Lemonade]

There has been an obvious Eastern Bias in the NCAA Hockey Administration for decades. Western teams have dominated college hockey overall, and of course there has been plenty of exceptions which I believe personally were helped to occur by the manipulations of the Eastern biased types in positions of control. These Eastern biased types have used their power to do all they can to manipulate the situation to favor their Eastern teams. Their tactics have changed over time, most recently, ever since 4 WCHA teams made the Frozen Four all in the same season, NCAA hockey has gone out of their way to try to manipulate things to prevent this from ever happening again, usually by making sure at least one regional is made up of only Eastern teams. Another technique they have turned to is making sure Western teams have to do more traveling come tourney time. Why, for example, with 5 NCAA Div 1 Men's teams residing in Minnesota, does the state of Minnesota only get to host ONE Frozen Four and ZERO Regionals over the next 6 years? Is it because Minnesota teams are such a threat to Eastern teams? In the past UMn was always a threat, but all the Minnesota teams were crammed into the same conference and UMn had a recruiting advantage, and Minnesota teams would take each other out, it was almost impossible for all of them to make the tourney, much less get to the Frozen Four. But ever since the creation of the B1G conf, which broke up the Minnesota schools into 3 different conferences, lessening the recruiting advantage UMn had over the other Mn based teams, the other Mn based teams have flourished, UMD is easily the most dominant team in all of college hockey the last decade, and SCSU has ranked very high in the rankings as well, and now Mankato is showing themselves to have the potential to not only make the tourney, but also the Frozen Four with a decent chance to win the Natl Title. Oh, and did I mention that UMn has regained their mojo and Bemidji St could also make it into the tourney as well? Does anyone believe any of these Mn based programs are going to whither and go away? More than likely they will continue to improve. So the Eastern biased NCAA Admins will seemingly avoid giving Minnesota based teams any advantages, especially the Gophers.

And even when the West does get tournament sites, they often still force Western teams to have to travel more than eastern teams ever will have to.

I'm sure some will claim that I am imagining things. Well...

From 2019 to 2026, the state of Mass gets 5 NCAA Regionals/FFs, New Hamp gets 4, NY gets 4, Conn gets 2, and Rhode Island gets 2. Oh, and Pennsylvania, a state with just 1 college hockey program, gets SIX.
That is 23 out of the 40 sites compared to just 15 for purely western sites, I figure both Tampa and Ohio are pretty nuetral. And yes PSU plays in a Western Conf, but geographically it is closer to eastern teams than to western teams. I'll admit I'm not sure if Penn sites are close enough to bus to for Eastern teams or not? But all but 1 western team will have to fly there, with the possible exception of Ohio based teams maybe?. The West only gets 15 sites, but with 4 of those being Colorado, that means flights for all but 2 western teams. Missouri gets 2, a Regional and a FF, so flights for every team going there, as there are no Missouri based hockey programs, are there? North Dakota gets 4 Regionals despite having only 1 team, South Dakota with ZERO teams, gets more tournaments than Minnesota with 2. And I'm counting Nevada as one of those 15 despite it having ZERO programs meaning travel for 100% of teams playing there. Granted it's a Frozen Four, so eastern teams will also have to travel as well, and flights to Vegas are super cheap(maybe the FF should be in Vegas every year?). Now I understand that the ND and SD tournaments are short bus rides for all Minnesota based teams, but they are still NOT Minnesota sites, so THE STATE OF HOCKEY gets 1 hockey tournament out of 40 possibilities? This is absolutely proof of an anti-Minnesota bias which is just the concentration of an anti-western bias among those running **** in NCAA hockey.

You lost me at "State of Hockey"....do you realize that a state like Mass has 10 NCAA D1 college hockey teams alone? Twice as many as Minnesota? 17 D1 programs reside in New England alone thus why they have a regional in those area. Tons of programs in close vicinity. Add in 11 in NY...and on in NJ and you have essentially half the D1 hockey programs in NE/NY alone...that's why.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

You lost me at "State of Hockey"....do you realize that a state like Mass has 10 NCAA D1 college hockey teams alone? Twice as many as Minnesota? 17 D1 programs reside in New England alone thus why they have a regional in those area. Tons of programs in close vicinity. Add in 11 in NY...and on in NJ and you have essentially half the D1 hockey programs in NE/NY alone...that's why.

I labeled Minnesota as the "State of Hockey", because it is. It's been the #1 producer of Div 1 NCAA hockey players for probably 90% of the years hockey has existed, and produces the most NHL players, as well. Midwestern teams almost never recruit eastern players, but eastern teams regularly go after Minnesota players, and far more often go after Canadians than Western teams, mostly out of need.

And how many of those 10 Mass based teams and 11 NY based teams have won Titles, or gotten to Frozen Fours or even made the NCAA tourney?

Last 50 years, UND has 6 titles, UW has 6, UMn has 5, DU has 3, UMD has 3, LSSU has 3, Mich has 2, MSU has 2, MT has 1, NM has 1 and BG has 1. That is 33 of the last 49 titles(last 50 seasons). That is TWICE as many as Eastern teams have produced.

I could also include that the US Hockey Hall of Fame is located in Minnesota, not anywhere in the NE, and it's filled with more Minnesotans than any other state's players, and for good reason. Minnesota also produces the majority of US Olympic players and it's not even close.

 

[J.D.]

If coaches and administrators don't like the current system, have they made proposals that have been shot down? UND is smart to host in Fargo. Denver got the memo with Loveland now in the picture. Same for Penn State and Allentown.

If these clearly superior, big, bad western teams can't handle getting on a plane to go beat the little sisters of the poor in the east in front of terrible crowds or in this year's case no crowd...do something about it. Work something out where you are hosting a regional. Or tell the NCAA that you will cover the costs of sending eastern teams out west.

 

[UMLFan]

Now that's an interesting way to prove your point. But I'll agree, since obviously the Hall of Fame is in Minnesota, why even bother letting anyone from outside that state play in the NCAAs?

 

[Lemonade]

I labeled Minnesota as the "State of Hockey", because it is. It's been the #1 producer of Div 1 NCAA hockey players for probably 90% of the years hockey has existed, and produces the most NHL players, as well. Midwestern teams almost never recruit eastern players, but eastern teams regularly go after Minnesota players, and far more often go after Canadians than Western teams, mostly out of need.

And how many of those 10 Mass based teams and 11 NY based teams have won Titles, or gotten to Frozen Fours or even made the NCAA tourney?

Last 50 years, UND has 6 titles, UW has 6, UMn has 5, DU has 3, UMD has 3, LSSU has 3, Mich has 2, MSU has 2, MT has 1, NM has 1 and BG has 1. That is 33 of the last 49 titles(last 50 seasons). That is TWICE as many as Eastern teams have produced.

I could also include that the US Hockey Hall of Fame is located in Minnesota, not anywhere in the NE, and it's filled with more Minnesotans than any other state's players, and for good reason. Minnesota also produces the majority of US Olympic players and it's not even close.

Its about LOGISTICS. Tell Minnesota to get off their hump and put in for some bids. Not sure Minnesota in April is a great draw but go for it. Cant be worse than Fargo....

 

[Numbers]

I labeled Minnesota as the "State of Hockey", because it is. It's been the #1 producer of Div 1 NCAA hockey players for probably 90% of the years hockey has existed, and produces the most NHL players, as well. Midwestern teams almost never recruit eastern players, but eastern teams regularly go after Minnesota players, and far more often go after Canadians than Western teams, mostly out of need.

And how many of those 10 Mass based teams and 11 NY based teams have won Titles, or gotten to Frozen Fours or even made the NCAA tourney?

Last 50 years, UND has 6 titles, UW has 6, UMn has 5, DU has 3, UMD has 3, LSSU has 3, Mich has 2, MSU has 2, MT has 1, NM has 1 and BG has 1. That is 33 of the last 49 titles(last 50 seasons). That is TWICE as many as Eastern teams have produced.

I could also include that the US Hockey Hall of Fame is located in Minnesota, not anywhere in the NE, and it's filled with more Minnesotans than any other state's players, and for good reason. Minnesota also produces the majority of US Olympic players and it's not even close.

The reason that there haven't been more regionals in Minnesota is, quite frankly, that no one there has bid to host one. That's mostly because the NCAA has changed the rules so that they prefer off-campus locations, and in the western parts, it's well known that there is no money to be made hosting if you can't be sure there will be fans present for the games. This is mostly due to NCAA. It's a real stretch to assume those rules are in place specifically to keep western teams from thriving. A real stretch. Much more likely is that off campus feels much more neutral.

This is the reason for Fargo and Sioux Falls. NoDak bids to host there, knowing their fans will make the trip down I-29 and fill both arenas.

No neutral site in Minnesota really works for this set up.

That's the reason.

Is there Eastern bias? In some small ways, yes. Most Eastern fans have no idea about the distances between schools in the west. This is a cultural bias, not a hockey bias.

Is there some conspiracy about placement of teams in Regions to prevent 4 western teams from filling the F4? No. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that. The committee has been making justifiable choices about the regionals all of the time. No conspiracy.

And, this year, the likely distribution is 10-6. For the west. No bias there.

 

[lakersparty]

This state of hockey argument is amusing, especially when there's a state that has 19 national championships. If we're going to use arbitrary stuff like "state of hockey" in an NCAA tournament bid conversation, then let's just give LSSU a tourney bid now without having to even play the Bemidji game tonight because the Lakers are from the state with 19 titles.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

If coaches and administrators don't like the current system, have they made proposals that have been shot down? UND is smart to host in Fargo. Denver got the memo with Loveland now in the picture. Same for Penn State and Allentown.

If these clearly superior, big, bad western teams can't handle getting on a plane to go beat the little sisters of the poor in the east in front of terrible crowds or in this year's case no crowd...do something about it. Work something out where you are hosting a regional. Or tell the NCAA that you will cover the costs of sending eastern teams out west.

Western team have ALWAYS spent more money for travel expenses throughout their regular seasons, and then have dominated NCAA tourney play, so it is Eastern teams that should have to come out west to play, if things were fair. But they are not fair, never have been, and never will be. I'm sure Minnesota has requested Regionals and FFs every year but seemingly only got rewarded with ONE in 40. And with Eastern biased people in charge, it won't matter if Minnesota asks for tournaments or not, they simply won't get them, because the NCAA is all about giving the little sisters of the poor out east as much help as they can, otherwise they'd win even less than they do now.

Btw, where have the best attended Frozen Fours been located? I'll give you a hint, they are all out West.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Now that's an interesting way to prove your point. But I'll agree, since obviously the Hall of Fame is in Minnesota, why even bother letting anyone from outside that state play in the NCAAs?

I'm fine with letting Eastern teams "play" in the NCAA tourney, but they shouldn't be given extra advantages, such as the majority of home field advantages come tourney time and a PWR rating system designed to help them out and get more Eastern teams into the tourney than otherwise would.

Eastern teams were given an advantage in the past simply by being guaranteed 2 bids to the Frozen Four for decades while they proved year after year that they probably didn't deserve to even be in the tournament.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Its about LOGISTICS. Tell Minnesota to get off their hump and put in for some bids. Not sure Minnesota in April is a great draw but go for it. Cant be worse than Fargo....

You have proof that Minnesota isn't putting in bids? And what? Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo, St Louis or Detroit are incredible places to visit in April? lol

 

[J.D.]

Do you have proof that Minnesota IS putting in bids? This is an easy game to play.

 

[UMLFan]

Do you have proof that Minnesota IS putting in bids? This is an easy game to play.

Right question.

I'm sure Minnesota has requested Regionals and FFs every year but seemingly only got rewarded with ONE in 40.

Because "I'm sure" isn't proof.

I think what Numbers said above how "No neutral site in Minnesota really works for this set up" makes sense, but I don't know that for sure either.

 

[captain beefheart]

Dear lord

Well said.

 

[Lemonade]

You have proof that Minnesota isn't putting in bids? And what? Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo, St Louis or Detroit are incredible places to visit in April? lol

I am sure there is a lot that goes into selecting locations. With the growth of hockey I would expect even more locations to be popping up as more programs get going to spread the game. Playing in Minnesota or Massachusetts in a saturated market really doesn't grow the game. If you want to get more specific the state of Massachusetts has 11 national titles compared to only 8 in Minnesotay.....

A site in Arizona would be awesome....only 20 states have NCAA D1 hockey programs.