NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

I agree with this 100%. With the current system you get odd matchups like last year where a #1 Adrian team had to play a top 5 team in UWSP while a lower ranked SNC team got to play Augsburg. SNC lost in the NCHA title game but was rewarded for being centrally located in the West region.

That happens in every sport though...

There are some football teams that get stuck playing a better opponent than they should while two "weaker" teams play in another game because of travel restrictions.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

That happens in every sport though...

There are some football teams that get stuck playing a better opponent than they should while two "weaker" teams play in another game because of travel restrictions.

That's exactly why I said with in restrictions. It can't be avoided right now, but putting conference opponent restrictions just doesn't work either.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

Here.
Here.

Discussing anything that doesn't fall within the repeatedly stated guidelines is utterly pointless.

In case those of you are too lazy to read the links XYZ provided, which based on this discussion I'm assuming most of you are, you realize that every sport's championship in Division III is treated the same way. To wit, travel is considered over having a NCAA Division I basketball type bracket. Once the teams are selected, regions also don't come into play anymore. Which is why Adrian can play a western team or an eastern team within the mileage limit in the early rounds. This really isn't that difficult if you take the time to study it and realize that as XYZ said four teams will get byes into the quarterfinals in the second weekend after eight teams play down to four in the first weekend. Pretty simple concept.

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

In case those of you are too lazy to read the links XYZ provided, which based on this discussion I'm assuming most of you are, you realize that every sport's championship in Division III is treated the same way. To wit, travel is considered over having a NCAA Division I basketball type bracket. Once the teams are selected, regions also don't come into play anymore. Which is why Adrian can play a western team or an eastern team within the mileage limit in the early rounds. This really isn't that difficult if you take the time to study it and realize that as XYZ said four teams will get byes into the quarterfinals in the second weekend after eight teams play down to four in the first weekend. Pretty simple concept.

Depending on how things sort out with the travel restrictions and the distribution of Pool B/Pool C, it would not be unexpected if there were only 4 "west" teams to make the field, meaning that all 4 first round games would involve all 8 of Eastern teams. That would lead to almost as much howling as the other alternative, which would have 6 "west" teams making the field. If there were 5 "west" teams you can expect somebody's feelings to be hurt as they will play the nearest out of region team. 12 is better than 11, but considering all the restrictions, don't expect to see a bracket like the old DI tournament.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

Depending on how things sort out with the travel restrictions and the distribution of Pool B/Pool C, it would not be unexpected if there were only 4 "west" teams to make the field, meaning that all 4 first round games would involve all 8 of Eastern teams. That would lead to almost as much howling as the other alternative, which would have 6 "west" teams making the field. If there were 5 "west" teams you can expect somebody's feelings to be hurt as they will play the nearest out of region team. 12 is better than 11, but considering all the restrictions, don't expect to see a bracket like the old DI tournament.

There would not be howling because if you were paying attention, and due to Norwich's absence you probably weren't, this is exactly what happened last year. The three first-round games were all in the east. The four western teams all passed through to the quarterfinals. And if the bracket wasn't like the old D1 tournament, how else would you do it? There's only four rounds - first, quarterfinals, semifinals, final. The first two rounds are spread out over two weeks. Seems to me if your tournament is 12 teams then four teams get byes into the quarterfinals, just like last year. I'm not a math professor but even I can figure that one out.

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

There would not be howling because if you were paying attention, and due to Norwich's absence you probably weren't, this is exactly what happened last year. The three first-round games were all in the east. The four western teams all passed through to the quarterfinals. And if the bracket wasn't like the old D1 tournament, how else would you do it? There's only four rounds - first, quarterfinals, semifinals, final. The first two rounds are spread out over two weeks. Seems to me if your tournament is 12 teams then four teams get byes into the quarterfinals, just like last year. I'm not a math professor but even I can figure that one out.

Last year 11 teams, 5 byes. All 4 western teams got byes and one eastern team (Hobart) got a bye. It wasn't possible for all of the byes to go to the midwest if there were only 4 midwest teams. The byes will be determined based in part on travel issues. If exactly 4 West teams make the tournament, it is almost a guarantee that all 4 byes go to the West. That is the way the system works, the right structure theoretically would give the top 4 teams regardless of region byes. and match up 12 vs. 5, 11 vs. 6, 10 vs. 7, and 9 vs. 8. However because of the rule that a 500 mile trip requires a flight, and flights must be minimized in the first two rounds, that scenario will not happen.

 

[Irishdave]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

Use only 3 regions West, Atlantic, New England
Top 4 teams in each region play a regional final 4
The 3 winners from the regionals plus the best second place of all the regionals make the NCAA frozen Four.
3 conferences in each region (dividing the current East Region into two Regions might be the fly in this ointment)

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Use only 3 regions West, Atlantic, New England
Top 4 teams in each region play a regional final 4
The 3 winners from the regionals plus the best second place of all the regionals make the NCAA frozen Four.
3 conferences in each region (dividing the current East Region into two Regions might be the fly in this ointment)

How? How can you do this? If the WIAC (UWSP), NCHA (MSOE) and MIAC(Augsburg) have their Autobid (Pool B), UWRF takes a Pool C, Adrian takes a Pool C, and SNC takes a Pool C. You're going to have a lot more than 4 teams in one region. What if Buff State wins the SUNYAC and Adrian gets a Pool C and Buff St is ranked ahead of Adrian. But putting Conference restrictions Adrian couldn't go to Buff State? Regionals are an awesome idea IF there is no travel restrictions and we can arrange teams based on rank and not location.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

Last year 11 teams, 5 byes. All 4 western teams got byes and one eastern team (Hobart) got a bye. It wasn't possible for all of the byes to go to the midwest if there were only 4 midwest teams. The byes will be determined based in part on travel issues. If exactly 4 West teams make the tournament, it is almost a guarantee that all 4 byes go to the West. That is the way the system works, the right structure theoretically would give the top 4 teams regardless of region byes. and match up 12 vs. 5, 11 vs. 6, 10 vs. 7, and 9 vs. 8. However because of the rule that a 500 mile trip requires a flight, and flights must be minimized in the first two rounds, that scenario will not happen.

If exactly four western teams making the tournament, all of them getting guaranteed byes into the quarterfinals is a falsehood. If you remember when Magic Mike McShane was on The Committee, four western teams played down to one team going to the semifinals more than once. Recently the west has had three top teams so they get byes into the quarterfinals and the MIAC team comes along for the ride. No tournament in Division III is seeded top to bottom due to travel and flight limitations. Quite a few in Division I aren't either. See: Playoff, College Football.

 

[NU Pastime]

If exactly four western teams making the tournament, all of them getting guaranteed byes into the quarterfinals is a falsehood. If you remember when Magic Mike McShane was on The Committee, four western teams played down to one team going to the semifinals more than once. Recently the west has had three top teams so they get byes into the quarterfinals and the MIAC team comes along for the ride. No tournament in Division III is seeded top to bottom due to travel and flight limitations. Quite a few in Division I aren't either. See: Playoff, College Football.

The travel restrictions of the CFP are merit-based. The #1 seed can't be at a geographic disadvantage in a semifinal, hence Alabama plays Washington in Atlanta as opposed to Phoenix. If Washington was #1 then they'd play in Phoenix and Ohio State and Clemson would play in Atlanta. This is entirely different than DIII travel restrictions where, again using football as an example, a couple years ago MIT played Husson (ME) in the first round even though they were the two lowest seeds solely because MIT was the only school within 500 miles of Husson. This is also why in DI basketball the overall number 1 gets placed in their region.

That's all I got. Proceed.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

How? How can you do this? If the WIAC (UWSP), NCHA (MSOE) and MIAC(Augsburg) have their Autobid (Pool B), UWRF takes a Pool C, Adrian takes a Pool C, and SNC takes a Pool C. You're going to have a lot more than 4 teams in one region. What if Buff State wins the SUNYAC and Adrian gets a Pool C and Buff St is ranked ahead of Adrian. But putting Conference restrictions Adrian couldn't go to Buff State? Regionals are an awesome idea IF there is no travel restrictions and we can arrange teams based on rank and not location.

And yet you totally missed criticizing his concept of sending a second place team in the NCAA regionals to the Frozen Four. By far his most harebrained idea in his whole post.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

If exactly four western teams making the tournament, all of them getting guaranteed byes into the quarterfinals is a falsehood. If you remember when Magic Mike McShane was on The Committee, four western teams played down to one team going to the semifinals more than once. Recently the west has had three top teams so they get byes into the quarterfinals and the MIAC team comes along for the ride. No tournament in Division III is seeded top to bottom due to travel and flight limitations. Quite a few in Division I aren't either. See: Playoff, College Football.

The D1 football playoffs aren't even run by the NCAA. So, try again...

Not to mention, they were seeded one through four.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

And yet you totally missed criticizing his concept of sending a second place team in the NCAA regionals to the Frozen Four. By far his most harebrained idea in his whole post.

Oh no I saw it, but just like the Cowboys Vikings 2pt conversion game...his original rant of Conference Regionals (Vikings offsides non call), negates the rest of his argument from trying to be reasonable (contact to the head). Once he started with that it didn't need to go farther.

In a perfect world the NCAA would allow 30+ games, 16 teams in the Tournament, fly who ever needs to be flown for regionals, bring back best of 3, and may the best team win.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

The D1 football playoffs aren't even run by the NCAA. So, try again...

Not to mention, they were seeded one through four.

You missed the point. The point was that outside of Alabama, you can argue the other three spots could be shifted around or that one or even two of the four teams in the tournament shouldn't even be in it. Very rarely do you get a bracket in any tournament everyone is happy with. The NFL is even worse. Anyhoo the fact remains you can't run a 12-team tournament without four teams getting a bye into the second round. There's no way the NCAA will ever run four pods of three teams just because that would make a less than ideal setup like we have now into a total logistical and competitive nightmare.

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

There's no way the NCAA will ever run four pods of three teams just because that would make a less than ideal setup like we have now into a total logistical and competitive nightmare.

The NCAA did run 4 pods of three teams in DI Hockey for years until they went to a 16 team tournament. Two regionals, each regional consisting of two pods. When the DI basketball tournament had 48 teams, they had 8 subregionals (or pre-regionals) set up with two pods of 3 teams in each group.

DIII is a different animal altogether, however because of the travel restrictions. Unless there is no way to avoid it, nobody travels more than 500 miles for a first or second round match up. That is the over-riding concern about seeding the DIII hockey tournament.

 

[walktheline]

You missed the point. The point was that outside of Alabama, you can argue the other three spots could be shifted around or that one or even two of the four teams in the tournament shouldn't even be in it. Very rarely do you get a bracket in any tournament everyone is happy with. The NFL is even worse. Anyhoo the fact remains you can't run a 12-team tournament without four teams getting a bye into the second round. There's no way the NCAA will ever run four pods of three teams just because that would make a less than ideal setup like we have now into a total logistical and competitive nightmare.

3 regional tournaments of 4 teams (conference champs and pool C teams). The 3 winners go to Championship weekend and the final entry is, no doubt, a contender.

The current format isn't bad either...but something new could build up excitement.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

3 regional tournaments of 4 teams (conference champs and pool C teams). The 3 winners go to Championship weekend and the final entry is, no doubt, a contender.

The current format isn't bad either...but something new could build up excitement.

No.

 

[joecct]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

The concept of 4 pods of 3 would be at 4 sites on one weekend. Friday night would be Round 1 and the winner would play the host in the QF on Saturday.

What we really need are colleges that have low male enrollment in states bordering Lake Erie to sponsor hockey.

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

The concept of 4 pods of 3 would be at 4 sites on one weekend. Friday night would be Round 1 and the winner would play the host in the QF on Saturday.

What we really need are colleges that have low male enrollment in states bordering Lake Erie to sponsor hockey.

That's a pretty big advantage for the host - they don't have to play Friday so they are the rested team going against a team that played the night before.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA Tournament - 12 Teams in 2016-17

You missed the point. The point was that outside of Alabama, you can argue the other three spots could be shifted around or that one or even two of the four teams in the tournament shouldn't even be in it. Very rarely do you get a bracket in any tournament everyone is happy with. The NFL is even worse. Anyhoo the fact remains you can't run a 12-team tournament without four teams getting a bye into the second round. There's no way the NCAA will ever run four pods of three teams just because that would make a less than ideal setup like we have now into a total logistical and competitive nightmare.

The NFL is entertainment first, sport second, like any professional sport. Don't ever forget that.

And the only pods I know about are pea pods. And I don't like peas...