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NCAA D3 Rankings

Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

gojackets said:
I'm more curious on thoughts as to why Elmira is still above Plattsburgh?
Click to expand...

I posted this on the other board...It's actually not too surprising:

"At first when I looked at the rankings I was surprised, but after careful review of the numbers, Elmira is still correctly listed ahead of Plattsburgh.

Elmira vs Plattsburgh
WIN 0.7885 1 0.7400 0
SOS 0.5349 0 0.5563 1
H2H 1- 1- 0 0 1- 1- 0 0
COP 17- 4- 1 1 15- 4- 3 0
RNK 4-4-1 1 4-5-2
PTS 3 1

Read more: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwc/d-iii-women-east/team-by-team/#ixzz1niyuT5Bl

Elmira takes winning percentage, record vs. NCAA ranked teams and common opponents currenty.

It actually doesn't look like Plattsburgh can pass Elmira in the rankings unless the Cardinals win the ECAC West, which would get them into the tournament anyway. Plattsburgh can't take winning percentage and common opponents away without winning both games. A loss in the semifinals or championship would keep their numbers below Elmira's.

Now, the only way things change is if the committee ranks Oswego or Potsdam. If the committee ranked one of those two teams it would give Plattsburgh a boost numbers wise that would hurt Elmira.

It's crazy to think that technically, if you go by the numbers, Elmira could still get into the tournament over Plattsburgh should they both be looking for Pool C's even with Elmira losing in the play-in game and Plattsburgh possibly making the ECAC West finals."
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
It's crazy to think that technically, if you go by the numbers, Elmira could still get into the tournament over Plattsburgh should they both be looking for Pool C's even with Elmira losing in the play-in game and Plattsburgh possibly making the ECAC West finals."
Click to expand...


One could assume that since the NCAA doesn't release their final rankings, they could give Plattsburgh the nod over Elmira if they were to advance to the ECAC-W championship game.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
1 Rochester Institute of Technology 21-1-1 23-1-1
2 Norwich 18-2-1 23-2-1
3 Amherst 18-4-1 20-4-1
4 Middlebury 18-3-3 19-3-3
5 Elmira 20-5-1 20-5-1
6 Plattsburgh State 17-5-3 17-5-3
7 Manhattanville 12-6-3 14-8-4
8 Bowdoin 11-8-3 12-9-4
9 Trinity (Conn.) 15-9 15-10
WEST
1 Gustavus Adolphus 21-2-2 21-2-2
2 Concordia-Moorhead 13-3-5 14-4-5
3 Wisconsin-River Falls 21-3-2 21-4-2
4 Wisconsin-Superior 17-7-3 17-7-3
5 St. Thomas (Minn.) 14-6-2 15-8-2
6 Adrian 13-7-2 15-9-2
7 Lake Forest 15-9-2 15-9-2

and the plot thickens....Elmira still ranked above Plattsburgh in the latest rankings....

Also Matt,

I've had a second confirmation that avoiding intra-conference matchups is part of the process. So whether its a handbook somewhere that we aren't seeing, or its just part of the process that isn't written down, it does appear it's considered.
Click to expand...
I am quite new to the playoff rankings process but just wondering how Concordia who was ranked 10th this week in the uscho poll would suddenly jump to 2nd in the West rankings . I am not sure what they did that would suggest they jump past UWRF? Jusk asking? I know that it must be tough to do these rankings when the you can't do a head to head for each team.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

gojackets said:
One could assume that since the NCAA doesn't release their final rankings, they could give Plattsburgh the nod over Elmira if they were to advance to the ECAC-W championship game.
Click to expand...

They could...but the only way they could do it and have the numbers support it is if they rank Potsdam or Oswego.

Unfortunately we don't get to see the final rankings so we won't ever know.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

yellowjacket said:
I am quite new to the playoff rankings process but just wondering how Concordia who was ranked 10th this week in the uscho poll would suddenly jump to 2nd in the West rankings . I am not sure what they did that would suggest they jump past UWRF? Jusk asking? I know that it must be tough to do these rankings when the you can't do a head to head for each team.
Click to expand...

The USCHO poll means NOTHING. It's a poll done by coaches and its their opinion.

The NCAA rankings are completely statisically based off of the NCAA's primary criteria. I was a little shocked to see Concordia (Minn) ahead of River Falls but that could all just be a ploy because Concordia (Minn.) has the best shot at securing an at-large Pool C bid from the west.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
The USCHO poll means NOTHING. It's a poll done by coaches and its their opinion.

The NCAA rankings are completely statisically based off of the NCAA's primary criteria. I was a little shocked to see Concordia (Minn) ahead of River Falls but that could all just be a ploy because Concordia (Minn.) has the best shot at securing an at-large Pool C bid from the west.
Click to expand...


I was surprised to see it too, but once you look at the numbers it is right.

Concordia (Minn.) vs Wisconsin-River Falls
WIN 0.7381 0 0.8462 1
SOS 0.5283 1 0.4977 0
H2H 0- 0- 0 0 0- 0- 0 0
COP 6- 2- 2 1 3- 2- 1 0
RNK 4- 1- 0 1 6- 2- 1 0
============================================
PTS 3 1

I don't think the NCAA had updated the information correctly when last weeks rankings came out as I had noticed that Superior's record listed was wrong. Concordia probably should have been ahead last week. I think the St Thomas loss is really what dropped River Falls down. If they had won that game they would have had an advantage in COP and RNK.


Derek...as far as results against ranked...its once ranked always ranked right?? So even though CSS is no longer there, those games still count in the category?
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

valiantfan08 said:
Is Elmira/Plattsburgh one Manhattanville upset of Norwich away from getting in the tournament.
Click to expand...

If someone upsets Norwich in the ECAC East playoff, it would probably bump both teams out of the NCAA tournament. Assuming that Plattsburgh doesn't win the ECACW title.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
I posted this on the other board...It's actually not too surprising:

"At first when I looked at the rankings I was surprised, but after careful review of the numbers, Elmira is still correctly listed ahead of Plattsburgh.

Elmira vs Plattsburgh
WIN 0.7885 1 0.7400 0
SOS 0.5349 0 0.5563 1
H2H 1- 1- 0 0 1- 1- 0 0
COP 17- 4- 1 1 15- 4- 3 0
RNK 4-4-1 1 4-5-2
PTS 3 1

Read more: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwc/d-iii-women-east/team-by-team/#ixzz1niyuT5Bl

Elmira takes winning percentage, record vs. NCAA ranked teams and common opponents currenty.

It actually doesn't look like Plattsburgh can pass Elmira in the rankings unless the Cardinals win the ECAC West, which would get them into the tournament anyway. Plattsburgh can't take winning percentage and common opponents away without winning both games. A loss in the semifinals or championship would keep their numbers below Elmira's.

Now, the only way things change is if the committee ranks Oswego or Potsdam. If the committee ranked one of those two teams it would give Plattsburgh a boost numbers wise that would hurt Elmira.

It's crazy to think that technically, if you go by the numbers, Elmira could still get into the tournament over Plattsburgh should they both be looking for Pool C's even with Elmira losing in the play-in game and Plattsburgh possibly making the ECAC West finals."
Click to expand...


I think Elmira's chance just got slimmer with Concordia (MN) making it to the MIAC Semi-final. Regardless of what the numbers say right now, this weekend will change those numbers, and if it's a Platty/RIT final, history has shown (except last year) that the two finalists from the ECAC West have moved on. A couple years ago RIT was left out when they lost in the semis and they only had 3 loses. How can this committee justify letting an Elmira team in that lost to Potsdam in the quarter finals, and they now have 5 L's. I don't see it happening for Elmira this year.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
I'm not the one adamantly denying it :)

Two members of the committee are enough for me.

Her name is Jan Gentry. Go ahead and give her a call. I've tried contacting her for two separate occasions multiple times this year through emails and multiple voicemails and have never gotten a direct call back from her or email response.

Good luck! ;)
Click to expand...

To be fair, after obtaining a copy of this year's Championship Manual, which, unfortunately is no longer available on the NCAA website, they have replaced the prior language from every prior year's manual stating that geography is the main priority in determining pairings with bracket integrity next in line. That section has been completely wiped out, and has been replaced with, "Teams from the same conference shall not be paired in the first round as long as geographical proximity is maintained.".

So, yes, it seems that has been added into the pairing selection process this year, however, previously it had never been in the manual and never been utilized in any other tournament.

The other interesting thing is this is strictly for DIII Women's Ice Hockey. The Men's Championship Manual continues to hold bracket integrity in the highest regard right below geographic proximity. There is no effort to avoid intra-conference match-ups for men's hockey.
 
RIT Fan said:
I think Elmira's chance just got slimmer with Concordia (MN) making it to the MIAC Semi-final. Regardless of what the numbers say right now, this weekend will change those numbers, and if it's a Platty/RIT final, history has shown (except last year) that the two finalists from the ECAC West have moved on. A couple years ago RIT was left out when they lost in the semis and they only had 3 loses. How can this committee justify letting an Elmira team in that lost to Potsdam in the quarter finals, and they now have 5 L's. I don't see it happening for Elmira this year.
Click to expand...
Well this should be interesting to see what happens now. Obviously, GA, WRF, middlebury, Amherst, RIT, and Plattsburgh are in. If Manhattanville upset Norwich (which I doubt, unless goalie steals the game for Valiants) then the final eight are set. If Norwich wins, then it will be interesting to see who the final team is, and how the committee clarifies the selection between Concordia and Elmira.

BTW, can anyone supply the link to the NCAA announcement of the selection on Monday, and know what time they announce?
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

For those wondering, yes, things are going to get interesting......

Code: 
    Concordia (Minn.) vs Elmira
WIN      0.7174  0           0.7885  1
SOS      0.5429  1           0.5332  0
H2H     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
COP     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
RNK     5- 2- 1  1          4- 4- 1  0
============================================
PTS              2                   1

But not necessarily for Plattsburgh....

Code: 
    Concordia (Minn.) vs Plattsburgh
WIN      0.7174  0           0.7500  1
SOS      0.5429  0           0.5548  1
H2H     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
COP     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
RNK     5- 2- 1  1          4- 5- 2  0
============================================
PTS              1                   2

Hold on, this ride could get bumpy.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

Unless I am missing something, the only way Concordia is not getting a "C" is if Manhattanville upsets Norwich.
How will the NCAA rank the western region with Gustavus beating Concordia? Does the River Falls win move them ahead of Concordia? Will the NCAA actually fly someone for a quarter-final? If Concordia is the #8 seed will they play at RIT (if RIT beats Plattsburgh)? Should RIT indeed beat Plattsburgh, then I think the NESCAC runner up goes to Norwich and the NESCAC winner hosts Plattsburgh.
Anyway...GO U BEARS!!!! (oh, wait, that's next year)
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

Matt Rennell said:
For those wondering, yes, things are going to get interesting......

Code: 
    Concordia (Minn.) vs Elmira
WIN      0.7174  0           0.7885  1
SOS      0.5429  1           0.5332  0
H2H     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
COP     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
RNK     5- 2- 1  1          4- 4- 1  0
============================================
PTS              2                   1

But not necessarily for Plattsburgh....

Code: 
    Concordia (Minn.) vs Plattsburgh
WIN      0.7174  0           0.7500  1
SOS      0.5429  0           0.5548  1
H2H     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
COP     0- 0- 0  0          0- 0- 0  0
RNK     5- 2- 1  1          4- 5- 2  0
============================================
PTS              1                   2

Hold on, this ride could get bumpy.
Click to expand...

Yes, but if Elmira is ahead of Plattsburgh, isn't Plattsburgh screwed? It doesn't matter if Plattsburgh can beat Concordia - they'll never be comapred. Or does the East Committee look at this and move Plattsburgh ahead of Elmira in the final ranking? Plattsburgh was on the wrong end of a coin flip last year....better (obviously) to just take care of business today.....
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

spwood said:
Yes, but if Elmira is ahead of Plattsburgh, isn't Plattsburgh screwed? It doesn't matter if Plattsburgh can beat Concordia - they'll never be comapred. Or does the East Committee look at this and move Plattsburgh ahead of Elmira in the final ranking? Plattsburgh was on the wrong end of a coin flip last year....better (obviously) to just take care of business today.....
Click to expand...

That's the million dollar question. If PSU loses today do they move ahead of Elmira with a win vs Oswego and loss vs. RIT. That's something we wont know until tomorrow morning. That said I would be kind of surprised if Elmira gets in and Plattsburgh doesn't. Elmira has the slimmest of leads in Win%, COP, and RNK. While Plattsburgh has a commanding lead in SOS which will increase significantly playing RIT today. It could go either way but I think they will have a hard time keeping Plattsburgh below Elmira.

You're right though, best bet is to just win and not worry about it.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

I will still be completely schocked if the activly elect to fly a team in the first round esp when that team would be concordia. Who isn't exactly near an airport at least a somewhat major airport
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

gojackets said:
I will still be completely schocked if the activly elect to fly a team in the first round esp when that team would be concordia. Who isn't exactly near an airport at least a somewhat major airport
Click to expand...
Fargo's airport isn't that much different than you get with a lot of mid-sized cities that aren't major hubs. I would think those type of airports are common with D-III tournaments.
 
Re: NCAA D3 Rankings

So no major upsets this year....assuming that Manhattanville doesn't come back to win down 6-3 with 5 minutes left in the 3rd.



Pool A's
Norwich
RIT
Middlebury
River Falls
Gustavus

Pool C's
Amherst
Plattsburgh
Elmira/Concordia


It depends on how the comparison's break down I suppose, but Matt said Concordia beats Elmira in the comparison. I'm betting Plattsburgh will move ahead of Elmira in the rankings, and get in...Then it comes down to Elmira/Concordia. Concordia should get in, but I'm guessing NC$$ goes with Elmira.


They let Concordia in...they have to fly them to RIT, then goodness forbid they were to beat RIT, they would have to fly two teams out east for the Final Four...making 3 flights...and an unhappy NCAA
 
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